What do these traffic lights mean??

SouthLondonUser

Reposted with bigger numbers, for clarity

user1977

SouthLondonUser said:

@user1977 , using the street view you have linked, I still don't quite understand.

1 is the traffic light for those on the left lane, waiting to turn left

2 is the traffic light for those on the right lane, waiting to go straight or turn right.

So far so good.

But then what are 3 and 4 for? That's what I don't get. Why repeat the signs after so few metres?

Are 2 and 4 the same lights? Or does 4 become green only when you can turn right, so 2 can be green while 4 is red?

Surely you'll agree it's at least a tad confusing...

They're just repeating the same signals at the far side of the junction. As you can see from the picture you've used there - 1 and 3, and 2 and 4, are showing the same signal. It's not that unusual.

Are you as similarly confused about the next junction along the road: https://maps.app.goo.gl/u4XR3f4qBWdocpbp9

SouthLondonUser

So 1 shows the very same as 3, and 2 shows the very same as 4?

What is the need to repeat the same signals after a few metres, but this time putting the two lights next to each other?

The next junction up the road does not seem the same to me at all; the lights are spaced out, not one attached to the other; not just that, as you progress, the second set of light is placed in such a way that the lights to the right are only visible if you are about to turn right, otherwise they are covered. Look at the second screenshot below.

So your example does not create the same potential confusion, IMHO.

facade

SouthLondonUser said:

@user1977 , using the street view you have linked, I still don't quite understand.

1 is the traffic light for those on the left lane, waiting to turn left

2 is the traffic light for those on the right lane, waiting to go straight or turn right.

So far so good.

But then what are 3 and 4 for? That's what I don't get. Why repeat the signs after so few metres?

Are 2 and 4 the same lights? Or does 4 become green only when you can turn right, so 2 can be green while 4 is red?

Surely you'll agree it's at least a tad confusing...

What you don't understand is that the traffic light at the left of your lane applies to your lane, except when it is the one on your right

The one at the far left is for the cycle lane, and is signed for no left or right turns.

Number 1 is for the left turn lane, except it could be for both lanes if the green light isn't a left arrow.

Number 2 is for the right hand lane as it does have a sign for no left turns attached.

Number 3 is the repeater for the left turn lane (even though it is on the wrong side) I know this because it has the same phase as the left turn lights. (but didn't until I saw the phase matches)It really ought to have a green arrow if it can ever show green when the right lane lights are red.

Number 4 must therefore be for the right lane straight on and right turn.

If I didn't spot the phase, I'd have thought 3 was for straight on and 4 would be a right turn arrow.

Simple when you have pictures to analyse in your armchair, a bit different if you encounter them for the first time at night.......

Like I said, always best to watch the lights adjacent to the stopline rather than over a junction.

The reason for the repeater is if you pull up to the stopline you normally can't see the lights on the stopline, which is why I hang back, and risk someone crashing into me who expects to stop 12 feet further on.....

(Notice that both cyclists appear to be pedalling, and therefore seem to have ignored red lights, I suppose the one with the yellow top could be exceptionally good at balancing with his feet on the pedals whilst stationary, but he can't possibly see his traffic light from that position.)

SouthLondonUser

Simple when you have pictures to analyse in your armchair, a bit different if you encounter them for the first time at night.......

Precisely!

The reason for the repeater is if you pull up to the stopline you normally can't see the lights on the stopline, which is why I hang back, and risk someone crashing into me who expects to stop 12 feet further on.....

I get that, but why not put the repeater for the left turn on the left, rather than in the right, a few centimetres away from the other repeater? That's what creates unnecessary confusion

facade

SouthLondonUser said:

<snip>

I get that, but why not put the repeater for the left turn on the left, rather than in the right, a few centimetres away from the other repeater? That's what creates unnecessary confusion

Because although that makes sense to us, Those Who Design These Things decided that the other side was better.

In Foreign Countries, they often suspend the traffic light over the actual lane that it applies to which would be better- but then some of them let you just turn left (well right actually as they drive on the wrong side) even when the light is red (USA) and others have rules that forbid mopeds & cycles from right turns, and make them go left and U turn in the space between the stopline and the junction then go straight over. (A hook turn- Australia, New Zealand, Japan)

user1977

SouthLondonUser said:

The reason for the repeater is if you pull up to the stopline you normally can't see the lights on the stopline, which is why I hang back, and risk someone crashing into me who expects to stop 12 feet further on.....

I get that, but why not put the repeater for the left turn on the left, rather than in the right

It saves some digging, I suppose! But I don't think it's overly confusing if you were paying attention to the lane markings and the lights as you approached the junction - the "far" lights are just intended as repeaters so the folk at the stop line can still see what's going on.

Goudy

user1977 said:

 But I don't think it's overly confusing if you were paying attention to the lane markings

I still can't believe we do this.
Paint arrows on the road telling road users which lane goes where might have worked once, a long long time ago when very few people had cars.

Has nobody thought that lots of traffic use these lanes and most vehicles aren't that transparent?

Earlier this year I flew to Athens and rented a car at the airport. The plan was we stayed near Athens the night and picked my sister up, who lives in Greece at Piraeus the next day before heading back through Athens to Evia.

I've done a fair few miles around Greece, many rural and a few motorways but I still wasn't looking forward to an evening driving through Athens, then navigating rush hour around a major port the next day.

Turned out my fears weren't justified.
Yes it's busy but far from chaotic, gantries above indicated which lane went where and more gantries above had the different, dedicated directional traffic lights on them on the major roads so you know where lanes and turns where and went, all clear as day.

There's little ambiguity at junctions, It's either STOP or nothing (so you have right on way). 
I didn't see one ridiculously short give way marked "slip road" on to a major road, again it's stop until there's a gap.

It was all quite refreshing and fairly fuss free. There's no this style of junction here and a different one 400 yards further up the same road.
You learn/get used to the one way they seem to do it and it all works fairly smoothly.

OK, some of the painted lines on the road have long since worn so you need to keep an eye on pedestrian crossings but it's simple.
And get this, they put signs up before junctions, not on it or after a junction that you can't see until you're on or halfway through it in the wrong lane from three.

I did the return leg back to Piraeus, then back to the airport around 10 days later, then flew back, drove through London home and instantly realised we've got it badly wrong over here!

born_again

Goudy said:

user1977 said:

 But I don't think it's overly confusing if you were paying attention to the lane markings

I still can't believe we do this.
Paint arrows on the road telling road users which lane goes where might have worked once, a long long time ago when very few people had cars.

Has nobody thought that lots of traffic use these lanes and most vehicles aren't that transparent?

Earlier this year I flew to Athens and rented a car at the airport. The plan was we stayed near Athens the night and picked my sister up, who lives in Greece at Piraeus the next day before heading back through Athens to Evia.

I've done a fair few miles around Greece, many rural and a few motorways but I still wasn't looking forward to an evening driving through Athens, then navigating rush hour around a major port the next day.

Turned out my fears weren't justified.
Yes it's busy but far from chaotic, gantries above indicated which lane went where and more gantries above had the different, dedicated directional traffic lights on them on the major roads so you know where lanes and turns where and went, all clear as day.

There's little ambiguity at junctions, It's either STOP or nothing (so you have right on way). 
I didn't see one ridiculously short give way marked "slip road" on to a major road, again it's stop until there's a gap.

It was all quite refreshing and fairly fuss free. There's no this style of junction here and a different one 400 yards further up the same road.
You learn/get used to the one way they seem to do it and it all works fairly smoothly.

OK, some of the painted lines on the road have long since worn so you need to keep an eye on pedestrian crossings but it's simple.
And get this, they put signs up before junctions, not on it or after a junction that you can't see until you're on or halfway through it in the wrong lane from three.

I did the return leg back to Piraeus, then back to the airport around 10 days later, then flew back, drove through London home and instantly realised we've got it badly wrong over here!

Which is why you leave a space between you & the car in front so you can see any markings on the road.

Tailgating car in front is why so many are in wrong lane & end up blocking box junctions.

Leaving a nice space also means if they stop & can't move. You can get round them.. But that's common sense 🤷‍♀️🤣

facade

Goudy said:

user1977 said:

 But I don't think it's overly confusing if you were paying attention to the lane markings

I still can't believe we do this.
Paint arrows on the road telling road users which lane goes where might have worked once, a long long time ago when very few people had cars.

Has nobody thought that lots of traffic use these lanes and most vehicles aren't that transparent?

<snip>

Yes, amazes me as well, the time you absolutely can't afford to be 3 lanes away from the lane you want is when the roads are pretty much gridlocked and the markings are obscured by traffic.

I particularly like our habit of marking the lane "A9876 W" and another "A9876 E"

Now I know I want the A9876 for a couple of miles on my way to Grungethorpe, but East or West?

If I'm lucky, right at the junction there is a sign with Grungethorpe on it, but I'm in the wrong lane as I needed to go East, not West......

Satnav really is a Godsend......