No contact unless he pays more - advice please

justontime

My husband makes payments direct to CSA to support his children (oldest 16 youngest 9) he does so willingly and he has no arrears. He loves his children very much and despite huge problems with his ex he has maintained regular contact with them. I am very fond of the children and they lived with us at one stage when their mum was going through a particularly unstable period in her life. They have a strong loving relationship with their dad and they are always keen to spend time with us. My husband has no direct contact with his ex. Several weeks ago the mobile number that he has to contact the children on was constantly turned off and they failed to turn at the meeting place for contact. He wrote to them and continued trying to ring them, but no response. Anyway to cut a long story short he finally met up with his oldest who told him that their mum and her husband are not working and on Income Support (again). This means that she doesn't get any of the money my husband pays (CS1) and she is fed up with this. She has decided to obstruct contact and prevent the children even speaking to their dad, then she intends to demand that he should pay her a sum of money every week on top of what he pays CSA. We are not really in a position to pay twice as there are children living with us too and our finances are already stretched. If we agreed I think she would either have to declare it and have her benefit reduced or she would be committing fraud, so it is not really an option. Normally we wouldn't entertain this kind of blackmail, but the 16 year old was in such a state and so upset by the whole thing that we have to do something. The ex thrives on solicitors and all that, so I don't think that is the way forward. The children have had enough upset and my husband finds it really stressful. She has never accepted an agreement about buying them clothes etc, she just wants to be given the cash, but perhaps we could suggest something like that. Any suggestions or advice please?

enemes

You are right to not allow yourselves to be blackmailed. It is nobodies fault, but her own, that they are on Income Support. Even if you did pay through a private agreement, she would loose her benefits pound for pound anyway, so really nobody wins, and the children are the loosers ... again.

I would sit it out. She is obviously using the kids and the time of year to her advantage. Give in to her once, and she will keep doing it to you, and the kids. The eldest is 16, and presumably is able enough to make his/her own decisions. I know, it is putting the child in an awkward situation, but there is only one person who is putting him/her there, and that's the mother. Children are not daft ... they will see her for what she is worth in time.

Hope it all works out .. for all of you.

Donedoingdebt

You say the ex thrives on solicitors, but she hasn't got a leg to stand on if you were to pursue this through the courts. You've no doubt got all your CSA communications to show proof that you've always paid what's due.
At their ages, any family court Judge will listen to the children's wishes & take these into account.
Perhaps just the threat of court action that may reveal her threat to possibly commit fraud maybe just the lever you need.

justontime

Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately the threat of court action would be exactly what the ex wants, she gets legal help and we have to fund everything ourselves, so she just delays, disputes every last point and even makes things up because the more solicitors letters she sends the more it costs us. If we follow the court route this time we will have to do it alone because we just don't have enough money to pay a solicitor. Even if we could afford it we would have to think very hard about it because those children have already gone through so much and making them choose between parents is totally wrong. The ex seems to have 'lost her way' in the 6 years since she decided she wanted to end her relationship with my husband, she has already got a record for benefit fraud and her lifestyle is chaotic to say the least. She has been violent towards my husband and to members of her own family and her husband has made very nasty threats to harm my husband. However she is the children's mum, they love her even if they find her behaviour hurtful, and we have to believe that she loves them. I don't agree with her behaviour regarding money, but children are expensive and it seems reasonable that we should help out with whatever we can in addition to the CSA payment, but we want it to be legal and very clearly for the children. Buying things (such as shoes or clothes) or paying for extra activities seems a fair option. We would prefer her to tell my husband what they need so that he could get the items with the children present to allow them some choice too. She says that is an insult and she wants the money instead, but when we have given her money in the past it has not been spent on the thing that the children needed.

Hapless_2

She obviously has a bank account, call her bluff and say you will give her the money but ONLY pay it via the bank as you want a reciept for money paid. We did this with OH ex and she soon stopped asking once she realised that the DSS would find out. In the end it did end up in court and she had to allow access and she got called some names....by the judge. Have you tried applying for legal aid?

Vomityspice

If this women is threatening to disrupt your partners contact then you have just two options.

1) Put up with it and do nothing!

2) Make an application for a Contact Order via your local court. There is a cost innolved (depending on your circumstances) but I suppose it boils down to what you would want to happen. Whilst I apprieciate it is only my own opinion, I think it would be a far better proposition to be abe to say to your children that you did everything you could to facilitate contact, rather than you did nothing.


Don't threaten legal action - do it! The process isn't that daunting! Fill in the paperwork (all available online) and submit it. Let your partner's ex send as many solicitor letters as she wants, she may be geting the advice for free but that can't change your application. You don't need to reply to any letters sent to you, just turn up on the day allocated for your hearing. Normally you will see a CAFCASS officer (Court Social Worker) to negotiate an agreement before seeing the judge. If the Ex doesn't agree then that will be passed on to the Judge to decide (and in my experience are perfectly able to see when someone is being unreasonable). Indeed, the advice she will be given is that Contact Orders will normally be granted (I'm assuming partner is named on the birth cert? and that paternaty isn't being disputed?) unless their is evidence to support that it is not in the best intrest of the children. Given the children's ages they will be only too able to express their views.

With regards your fears of 'putting the children through it'..... the children would much rather someone demonstated they care about them than not!

It would seem this person is simply trying to bully you to further her own position. Choice is yours.

justontime

Thanks for your very helpful reply. Yes, my husband is named on the birth certificates and he has a Parental Responsibility agreement for each of them. Unfortunately about eighteen months ago the ex announced to the children that the middle child (now 13) is not my husbands. There is good reason to believe that this is true but my husband took the view that he had to just carry on as if he was her biological father (including paying CSA) because the emotional damage to the child at this point in her life could be devastating, and in any case he can't switch off the love and responsibility he feels for her. Of course she had the right to know about her true parentage but it should have been done very differently, the way it happened was cruel. If all this comes out in court it could be very upsetting to all the children involved, but especially the child herself as he probably wouldn't be granted contact with her, my husband would never want her to feel that she was being rejected. There is absolutely no doubt about the paternity of the other two children.

Despite the concerns I think you are quite right, doing nothing is simply not an option and we will have to apply to the court to resolve the problem with contact.

Vomityspice

It doesn't legally matter that she has declared that the middle child isn't his! As long as he was a) Married at the time to ex and b) Named on the Birth Cert and C)He doesn't dispute paternity then the law will pressume that the child is his.

If she want's to prove he isn't the father than she is entitled to pay for a DNA test, which given that she is on benefits, I suspect won't happen.

How this would effect the Court is that it would likely to take no notice of this whatsoever. Legally, your husband is the father. It's highly unlikely that she would want to dispute this as it would obviously mean that your husband could reduce his maintanence payment. Something it would seem she is keen not to do. Additionally, he would also have an opportunity too claim back any monies paid for this child if he was proven not to be the father.

So, would the Ex want to risk 1) losing some of the CSA income (for ever) 2)Prove what a potential slag (yes I know it's labeling her!) she is by saying that the child isn't your husbands (and being correct)?

Happy to pull out the case law if required (Family Law - Jonathon Herring)

justontime

He wasn't married but he was on the birth certificates of all 3 children and he has a court certified parental responsibility agreement for each child. As I said earlier the mum seems to have 'lost her way' in the last few years. Her behaviour is unpredictable and hardly rational most of the time. She wouldn't care a jot about what anyone thought of her morals. It is sad, and we can't help speculating on the reasons for her behaviour, but it is hard to prove anything.

space_rider

I did the contact thing with the court by myself as I wasn`t going to waste my money on solicitors. My ex was getting legal aid and I wasn`t going to spend my hard earned money on solicitors fees. It wasn`t as daunting as I thought and you can get some good advise on the net.

aboynamedsue

I'm in a very similar position,only it's ex husband is pwc and my csa payments have now finished (all be it a year late)..it seems we just have to bend over the barrel for them..they get legal aid to fight any challenge we make and as my son has learning disability i feel really strongly that i don't want him feeling he has to choose between his mum and dad..C.S.A.has so much to answer for..i realise it isn't directly responsible for peoples actions but they certainly don't help..Sorry i can't help with advice..sometimes it just helps to know someone else is in the same boat!!