Ability to make emergency calls

iniltous

TBH , if someone was paying £26 ( which is a typical price for both broadband and phone ) and decided not to use it apart from 999 calls , then that’s like buying a car and leaving it in the garage without ever driving it, if you paid £26 you may as well get ‘internet’ at the same time .

As said , there is a BT reduced rental , phone only deal , £15 is a guesstimate in that when it was first introduced, ‘full’ line rental was £20 and this scheme gave a £7 discount, so £13 , but that was a few years ago , if the discount is still £7 but line rental is now more than £22 then it may be more than £15 , it’s only available to callers , so the price won’t be widely known .

 A further complication ( as you now seem to accept that it won’t be free ) is there is now a PSTN/WLR stop sell , so ‘phone lines’ just for the phone may be tricky, as telephones will need to be connected to the internet , this may ( temporarily ) interfere with anyone ordering just a phone service, existing phone only customers are not involved yet , but they will eventually be affected by this.

NB , just re read this entire thread , you state you already have WiFi ( my bad , should have read this previously ) because you have access to a broadband provider and you use it , the fact it’s wireless rather than landline based is irrelevant , you won’t qualify for the reduced line rental anyway, and if you call BT they will ask do you have any broadband service, which you do.

The purpose for this reduced line rental is for people that don’t want or need broadband at all  ( you call it WiFi but it’s broadband you may connect to it wirelessly with WiFi ) , but you obviously have it ( broadband/WiFi ) it’s simply you don’t know if it’s reliable enough for emergencies and want a back up , that back up won’t be subsidised even if you don’t intend to use it unless your alternative network broadband goes down .

Contemplation

iniltous said:

TBH , if someone was paying £26 ( which is a typical price for both broadband and phone ) and decided not to use it apart from 999 calls , then that’s like buying a car and leaving it in the garage without ever driving it, if you paid £26 you may as well get ‘internet’ at the same time .

As said , there is a BT reduced rental , phone only deal , £15 is a guesstimate in that when it was first introduced, ‘full’ line rental was £20 and this scheme gave a £7 discount, so £13 , but that was a few years ago , if the discount is still £7 but line rental is now more than £22 then it may be more than £15 , it’s only available to callers , so the price won’t be widely known .

 A further complication ( as you now seem to accept that it won’t be free ) is there is now a PSTN/WLR stop sell , so ‘phone lines’ just for the phone may be tricky, as telephones will need to be connected to the internet , this may ( temporarily ) interfere with anyone ordering just a phone service, existing phone only customers are not involved yet , but they will eventually be affected by this.

NB , just re read this entire thread , you state you already have WiFi ( my bad , should have read this previously ) because you have access to a broadband provider and you use it , the fact it’s wireless rather than landline based is irrelevant , you won’t qualify for the reduced line rental anyway, and if you call BT they will ask do you have any broadband service, which you do.

The purpose for this reduced line rental is for people that don’t want or need broadband at all  ( you call it WiFi but it’s broadband you may connect to it wirelessly with WiFi ) , but you obviously have it ( broadband/WiFi ) it’s simply you don’t know if it’s reliable enough for emergencies and want a back up , that back up won’t be subsidised even if you don’t intend to use it unless your alternative network broadband goes down .

I'm a little confused. Having broadband doesn't allow me to make an emergency call. It doesn't give me a landline. Even if I boot up the PC (I don't want to have to wait for that in an emergency) then I still can't contact the emergency number, plus what if the provider has issues or there's a power cut? The landline system where power is supplied through the line is vital for an emergency call system.

Thanks for replying btw.

iniltous

If you have broadband ( even if it’s a fixed wireless network ) you can have a VoIP service over it if you want , if the fixed network provider doesn’t offer this  , then a third party VoIP provider can ,  if you chose to use VoIP  via a PC , then it’s your choice to either leave the PC on permanently, or switch it on as and when necessary, but  there are other methods of using VoIP apart from a PC , this may be cheaper than adding a landline for emergencies.

The point is you already have broadband, so you don’t qualify for discounted BT line rental …you obviously can still have a separate BT landline for ‘emergencies’ but it will be the normal price , and thats around £22 with BT , but you don’t  ( in fact no one at all ) have to use BT 

If telephone on its own is £22 and it can be bundled with broadband for £25-£30 ,I’d spend the extra and either ditch the fixed wireless network, unless the landline broadband is prohibitively slow , or use it as  a backup for the fixed wireless network, but obviously you could just have a landline for telephony if that’s what you want .

The cheapest BT line rental ( with the £7 discount) is for non broadband customers , that doesn’t apply to you as you already have broadband it just happens to be from an alternative network, the next best is the £22 line rental with inclusive minutes and extra features included, but you may not be prepared to pay this , in which case it’s adding VoIP to your fixed wireless network or not having a landline service, but obviously if the fixed wireless network is down , your phone is also down

Contemplation

iniltous said:

If you have broadband ( even if it’s a fixed wireless network ) you can have a VoIP service over it if you want , if the fixed network provider doesn’t offer this  , then a third party VoIP provider can ,  if you chose to use VoIP  via a PC , then it’s your choice to either leave the PC on permanently, or switch it on as and when necessary, but  there are other methods of using VoIP apart from a PC , this may be cheaper than adding a landline for emergencies.

The point is you already have broadband, so you don’t qualify for discounted BT line rental …you obviously can still have a separate BT landline for ‘emergencies’ but it will be the normal price , and thats around £22 with BT , but you don’t  ( in fact no one at all ) have to use BT 

If telephone on its own is £22 and it can be bundled with broadband for £25-£30 ,I’d spend the extra and either ditch the fixed wireless network, unless the landline broadband is prohibitively slow , or use it as  a backup for the fixed wireless network, but obviously you could just have a landline for telephony if that’s what you want .

The cheapest BT line rental ( with the £7 discount) is for non broadband customers , that doesn’t apply to you as you already have broadband it just happens to be from an alternative network, the next best is the £22 line rental with inclusive minutes and extra features included, but you may not be prepared to pay this , in which case it’s adding VoIP to your fixed wireless network or not having a landline service, but obviously if the fixed wireless network is down , your phone is also down

Thank you. So I can use a telephone with my broadband connection as a VOIP that's always on?

The only issue then is when there's a fault with the broadband. Whilst I understand your points, I do think that an always on landline service should be freely available for everyone.

JSmithy45AD

Contemplation said:

iniltous said:

If you have broadband ( even if it’s a fixed wireless network ) you can have a VoIP service over it if you want , if the fixed network provider doesn’t offer this  , then a third party VoIP provider can ,  if you chose to use VoIP  via a PC , then it’s your choice to either leave the PC on permanently, or switch it on as and when necessary, but  there are other methods of using VoIP apart from a PC , this may be cheaper than adding a landline for emergencies.

The point is you already have broadband, so you don’t qualify for discounted BT line rental …you obviously can still have a separate BT landline for ‘emergencies’ but it will be the normal price , and thats around £22 with BT , but you don’t  ( in fact no one at all ) have to use BT 

If telephone on its own is £22 and it can be bundled with broadband for £25-£30 ,I’d spend the extra and either ditch the fixed wireless network, unless the landline broadband is prohibitively slow , or use it as  a backup for the fixed wireless network, but obviously you could just have a landline for telephony if that’s what you want .

The cheapest BT line rental ( with the £7 discount) is for non broadband customers , that doesn’t apply to you as you already have broadband it just happens to be from an alternative network, the next best is the £22 line rental with inclusive minutes and extra features included, but you may not be prepared to pay this , in which case it’s adding VoIP to your fixed wireless network or not having a landline service, but obviously if the fixed wireless network is down , your phone is also down

Thank you. So I can use a telephone with my broadband connection as a VOIP that's always on?

The only issue then is when there's a fault with the broadband. Whilst I understand your points, I do think that an always on landline service should be freely available for everyone.

And what if there's a fault with your "always" on landline or phone?

iniltous

Why do you think an always on landline phone should ( presumably an Openreach based landline service ) be free ?, especially as you are prepared to pay a company that will make a profit from your  current broadband service ?, companies that lose money go out of business, so it’s a given that your current provider is making a profit on your custom.
Hopefully you accept that providing a phone line and maintaining it , on the off chance you may want to use it to make a free call to the emergency services, is not cost free the organisation providing it , so who , if not you , should pay for this ?

If you want it something for ‘free’ thats not really free , then someone has to pay , wether that’s via a local or national  ‘tax’ , so who should be paying more tax so you can have a free emergency line even though you can afford to pay a commercial enterprise to supply your broadband ?

Contemplation

iniltous said:

Why do you think an always on landline phone should ( presumably an Openreach based landline service ) be free ?, especially as you are prepared to pay a company that will make a profit from your  current broadband service ?, companies that lose money go out of business, so it’s a given that your current provider is making a profit on your custom.
Hopefully you accept that providing a phone line and maintaining it , on the off chance you may want to use it to make a free call to the emergency services, is not cost free the organisation providing it , so who , if not you , should pay for this ?

If you want it something for ‘free’ thats not really free , then someone has to pay , wether that’s via a local or national  ‘tax’ , so who should be paying more tax so you can have a free emergency line even though you can afford to pay a commercial enterprise to supply your broadband ?

If healthcare is free at the point of access then getting healthcare when you most need it in an emergency is obviously a priority for being free at the point of access. I'm assuming you know the motto, "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need", and I would argue that the ability to have free healthcare is pretty useless in the context of not being able to contact the necessary healthcare provider in an emergency.

Your argument that paying for broadband would be an argument for not using tax money doesn't hold water. If that were the case them you could argue that anyone who can pay for any service that's not necessary for the direct continuation of health should therefore pay for any and all health services. That might be an argument, but it goes against what we British have held sacrosanct in the majority for many, many decades.

I certainly appreciate your answers to my question and your elucidation of what can and cannot be done practically. Thank you.

Contemplation

JSmithy45AD said:

Contemplation said:

iniltous said:

If you have broadband ( even if it’s a fixed wireless network ) you can have a VoIP service over it if you want , if the fixed network provider doesn’t offer this  , then a third party VoIP provider can ,  if you chose to use VoIP  via a PC , then it’s your choice to either leave the PC on permanently, or switch it on as and when necessary, but  there are other methods of using VoIP apart from a PC , this may be cheaper than adding a landline for emergencies.

The point is you already have broadband, so you don’t qualify for discounted BT line rental …you obviously can still have a separate BT landline for ‘emergencies’ but it will be the normal price , and thats around £22 with BT , but you don’t  ( in fact no one at all ) have to use BT 

If telephone on its own is £22 and it can be bundled with broadband for £25-£30 ,I’d spend the extra and either ditch the fixed wireless network, unless the landline broadband is prohibitively slow , or use it as  a backup for the fixed wireless network, but obviously you could just have a landline for telephony if that’s what you want .

The cheapest BT line rental ( with the £7 discount) is for non broadband customers , that doesn’t apply to you as you already have broadband it just happens to be from an alternative network, the next best is the £22 line rental with inclusive minutes and extra features included, but you may not be prepared to pay this , in which case it’s adding VoIP to your fixed wireless network or not having a landline service, but obviously if the fixed wireless network is down , your phone is also down

Thank you. So I can use a telephone with my broadband connection as a VOIP that's always on?

The only issue then is when there's a fault with the broadband. Whilst I understand your points, I do think that an always on landline service should be freely available for everyone.

And what if there's a fault with your "always" on landline or phone?

I have never experienced that in all my years. It's certainly proved far, far more reliable than the house electricity supply in many areas I have lived. The argument is one of highest probability of access as you are likely aware.

iniltous

In a utopian society, then perhaps the means to contact the emergency services would also be part of a ‘free’ healthcare system, but we don't live in one , and it’s beyond naive to expect a backup emergency contact line to be provided by a commercial business for ‘free’ , so my question is who would you like to pay for this  ? ultimately that would have to be by ‘taxpayers’ , I’ve personally no problem making a taxpayer provided ‘line’ available for those that can’t afford one themselves ( as part of the NHS )  , but its unlikely to include yourself, given that you already have the means to pay ( and do so already )  , if you want redundancy on the system you already have and pay for , but for free , that realistically would never be provided.

Presumably are not ‘happy’ that your chosen broadband provider cannot ( to your satisfaction ) provide access to the emergency services reliably via VoIP , perhaps that’s in part because it requires mains power , so you want a back up that doesn’t require mains power , that fine , it’s available for now , (setting aside that you don’t want to pay for it ) but another consideration is even this ‘backup line’ will in the near future be IP based and require a mains powered device  at your home for it to operate, so even in  nirvana, this free or subsidised backup line would still be unavailable during a power outage , unless ,as well as expecting this backup line to be provided on a free or subsidised basis you also expected the company providing it ,  to maintain their old network as it currently is , as well as providing a new network fit for the 21st Century, thus requiring that company to keep the old , expensive and difficult to maintain system available alongside its new IP network, that is a really expensive prospect, so it really does come down to ‘who pays’  ?

Bigphil1474

OP, when we last changed our Virgin Media contract we were told by their negotiator that we had to have an emergency phone fitted as part of the package. Turns out we didn't, as the fitter came along and told us it was optional, so we said no. However, they do exist and are designed to work even in a power cut. How they work, I don't know, but they aren't connected to a landline (we don't use the Openreach line), but via the cable network somehow. The package we got would have been no more expensive with or without it, and the phone purely made emergency calls (so couldn't be used for anything else). If you are in a cable area, it might be an option to explore.