Parking fine - even though I paid for the time parked!

MagicMoneyTree81

Just got a parking fine for overrunning by half an hour. It appears to be a carpark operator with only one car park. Self-contained car park – ie not attached to a hospital, retailer etc. Caught by an ANPR camera.

However, I want to appeal on two grounds:

An occupant of the car bought a second ticket to cover the extra time (and then some). They can prove this with a screenshot of their accounts showing identical transactions on the same day to the same merchant. But probably not with ticket receipts, as they can’t find them yet.

The issue I think is they forgot to add my reg number when paying the second time – but frankly, it shouldn’t let you pay without adding your reg number. (Not planning to admit to this bit).

And two, the letter was sent 43 days after the alleged violation. On the letter it says they adhere to the ATA Code of Practice, which cites a 14-day limit on notifying the vehicle owner. I didn’t get a notice on my windscreen at the time, just to be clear.

Planning to appeal on those grounds – am I wise to cite the information above?

Thanks in advance to anyone who helps!

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

Which PPC issued the PCN, and where did the alleged event occur?

Plan A is always a complaint from the registered keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP, without identifying the driver.
Check the NTK to see whether it was or was not PoFA compliant. The information you need to deal with this can be found in the sticky Announcement for NEWBIES.
Please thoroughly read the relevant parts of it to get yourself up to speed.

MagicMoneyTree81

Not a fine - good point!

I feared you might say something like that. Not sure I have the time/will to hunt down the landowner and also write to the MP... 

The letter (which I assume is the NTK) says nowt about being PoFA compliant. Will take a look at the NEWBIES thread then.

Thanks very much for your help!!!

Coupon-mad

MagicMoneyTree81 said:

Not a fine - good point!

I feared you might say something like that. Not sure I have the time/will to hunt down the landowner and also write to the MP... 

The letter (which I assume is the NTK) says nowt about being PoFA compliant. Will take a look at the NEWBIES thread then.

Thanks very much for your help!!!

Absolutely categorically DO NOT appeal a non-POFA postal PCN as the admitted driver telling the story of "what I did".

You need to tell us which PPC?

MagicMoneyTree81

They don't mention POFA on the PCN, FWIW.

So you don't think I should mount a defence based on the truth that the time parked was more than paid for? (Albeit without a receipt).

Thanks for your help!

B789

If you're positive that there is no mention of PoFA 2012 on the NtK which was "deemed" delivered more than 14 days after the parking event, then you can appeal as the registered keeper. Do not blab or mention anything (as you have done in your opening post) about who was driving.

As the NtK is not PoFA compliant, they cannot hold the registered keeper liable under any circumstance. They have no idea who the driver is, unless you blab it to them.

Coupon-mad

MagicMoneyTree81 said:

Was reluctant to specify them in case they monitor this forum - they only appear to have one car park, according to their website, which narrows the number of cases down in terms of identifying me.

They don't mention POFA on the PCN, FWIW.

So you don't think I should mount a defence based on the truth that I actually paid for the time I was parked? (Albeit without a receipt).

Obviously not.

Please name the PPC.

MagicMoneyTree81

Thanks!

They appear to only have one car park. Now you can see the PPC, does this alter your advice for how I should proceed?

I'm pretty confident, having read the NEWBIES thread and done a cursory check on the law, that they can't get me on this (if I do not disclose the driver ID).

However, I'm nevertheless concerned about them trying their hand and me getting threatening legal letters for weeks and months.

I'd prefer to defend myself on the basis that I did pay to cover the time parked (I DID!). But if I go down that route I guess the odds of me having to pay up are actually much higher.

So in two minds.

B789

MagicMoneyTree81 said:

However, I'm nevertheless concerned about them trying their hand and me getting threatening legal letters for weeks and months. Even if I know my position is watertight, I know that will cause me anxiety, such is my personality!

I'd prefer to defend myself on the basis that I did pay to cover the time parked (I DID!), but then again, perhaps they can successfully argue I didn't use the machine properly and therefore violated the T&Cs. If I go down that route I guess the odds of me having to pay up are actually much higher.

You are way overthinking this. They can argue about whether you did or didn't use the payment machine until the cow come home. You don't have to prove anything. The burden is on the PPC to prove their case. 

Just use the blue template appeal from the Newbies/FAQ thread. You are appealing as the registered keeper.

Have you tried Plan A yet? Complain to the landowner and write to your MP asking them to intervene in your complaint to the unregulated private parking company.

Even if they reject your appeal, any debt collector letters are to be ignored. They are harmless. The debt collectors offer their services to the PPC on a no-win-no-fee basis. The are not a party to the contract you have allegedly breached and cannot do anything except to try and scare you. They are hoping you are a low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and will poop your pants at their threatening letters and pay into their scam. Just collect the letters and use them to line the bottom of a bird cage.

Coupon-mad

I'd prefer to defend myself on the basis that I did pay to cover the time parked (I DID!), but then again, perhaps they can successfully argue I didn't use the machine properly and therefore violated the T&Cs. 

No you wouldn't.  That ISN'T how to appeal.

You'd prefer to appeal as registered keeper as per the NEWBIES thread.  You want to win.

Webbeye in Blackpool:

Never heard of them! Certainly no paying.  There is zero chance of you having to pay.

MagicMoneyTree81

Thanks both!

OK, so will go with the template. But...

Below the template it says:

You can (carefully!) add a little to the template above, 'in order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of...':

- the driver's receipts/bank transactions (or Hospital Appointment/Hotel booking, etc.) that day as 'they' were a genuine customer/patient, etc.

This implies that I could attach screenshots of the two transactions the occupant of the car made that meant they actually paid for the time parked?