PCN from GroupNexus but after 14 days

PocketD

Can anyone advise if they have had any experience of the 14 day notice period for a POFA PCN please?

I have received a notice, saying I stayed at a free parking shopping centre but went over the allowed time. The allowance is 3 hours and I stayed 3 hours and 17 minutes.  The letter has CCTV, I can only assume it's accurate.

However I just received the letter today (19th September) the incident was on the 28th August and the letter says it was Issued on the 7th September.  I find it hard to believe it took 12 days to get here so I suspect that is an inaccurate Date of Issue on the letter and they put that to make it POFA compliant (in reality I got the letter 22 days later).

I intend to appeal on the basis it's over the 14 days required for a POFA notice, however is there any way to prove delivery or when a letter was posted if it's not recorded?  Or does anyone have any experience on how likely or not the appeal would be with Nexus or afterwards POPLA?

The envelope does have those little red lines on the from which I assume Royal Mail stick on the envelope when its been processed so wondering if I can use that somehow? 

Fruitcake

Unfortunately the PoFA and the Interpretation Act both assume the NTK would have arrived on the second working day after posting, which would have been day 14. Like you say, you can't prove it didn't arrive by day 14, so don't rely on it, but do mention it anyway, especially if the envelope indicates it was posted using a bulk mailing third party.

Is the NTK otherwise PoFA compliant?

Plan A is always a complaint to the landowner and your MP. If that fails, then appeal using the standard template in blue text plus a one liner stating that it arrived too late for the keeper to be held liable.

PocketD

It's very annoying that I just know they are probably lying on the letter with regards to the Date of Issue, none of my other post is late, especially 12 days late.  
Also annoying I was over by 17 minutes and it takes ages to get out the damn car park anyway.  

Fruitcake

Bulk mailer companies take a day at least to process post which would have made the posting date at least a day after the issue date, but neither GN nor PoPLA will accept that. 

Do you have a dashcam or a smartphone with location tracking enabled to show how long it took to get in and out of the car park? Get photos of the site and signage ready for PoPLA.

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before. Plan A is always the best option.

PocketD

Unfortunately no I have no dash cam that would prove how long it took to get out.  It was at a small shopping centre in Basildon (Mayflower) and although I have the location data for that day, it isnt accurate enough to show when I was driving or just in the shops there.  

It does seem that the parking agents can just stick any old date on thew letter to make it POFA compliant and there's not a lot you can do to prove otherwise as to when it was actually sent. 

Is asking the landowner / MP really much help?  I kinda thought I should appeal online as soon as I got the letter (stating after 14 days) so they could see the timeline and maybe adding 17 minutes over was a bit harsh (but not use those words!).

Coupon-mad

Appeal is pointless.  You can't prove it arrived late even though it did.  You won't win at POPLA.

Complaints are what get these cancelled.

Of course MPs have to be engaged; it's a current policy and new law issue.  Very topical.

We discuss this new Code of Practice every day here and only yesterday replied thusly to a similar question:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80296321#Comment_80296321

Do not pay.

PocketD

I've emailed both British Land (twice now) and my MP to see if this bears any fruit. 
I will call British Land in the morning to see if there is anyone I can talk to about it. 

Given that their (bogus) date of issue says 7th September, I'm assuming it makes sense to now appeal online stating the NTK was not received on time to be POFA compliant and request cancellation - so this at least put this on hold at the discounted amount (even though I only got the NTK 19th September)?   

prowla

Whatever happened to proof of posting is not proof of delivery?

Fruitcake

prowla said:

Whatever happened to proof of posting is not proof of delivery?

The Interpretation Act and The PoFA that both presume a letter is delivered two working days after posting first class, or four working days after posting second class.

PocketD

I know it's only been a few days but I've had no joy from the land owners and nothing (thus far) from Mr Francois MP. 

In the Newbies thread, moving from PLAN A to PLAN B for postal BCA NTKs it says there's no need to wait and I can appeal online straight away.  I know this will be futile, as will the POPLA appeal if/when it happens.

Am I right in thinking this will be the process afterwards.....
Wait for the inevitable debt collection letters to start rolling in
If they don't give up, eventually this will go to court and I can use the template defence to defend.

Hopefully I have the process right. 

If you are unlucky and are in the 1% of those that lose at court (unlikely I know, but possible), do they usually uphold the claimant's original amount (in this case £100 - currently reduced to £60) plus court costs?  Or do they order a 'fairer' amount?  I'm struggling to find examples of people that took it to court. 

Fruitcake

You are just about spot on with your summation of likely events.

If it gets to court, but properly defended, most posters win using the help from this forum including the template defence.

If you lose it should only be the original charge plus permitted court costs. Very few judges allow the fake add-ons, but sometimes we see a clueless judge who does. It's impossible to predict.