House that has been underpinned

kjs31

I viewed a property last weekend that I quite liked. After the viewing we got chatting to the guy who lived opposite and he said that he had bought his house by auction as it had structural damage caused by the large trees on the other side of the boundary fence. He had the side of the property rebuilt to address the issues. The trees have TPOs and also run alongside the house that I viewed. 

The estate agent rang me and asked for feedback. I asked about subsidence and was told that the owner had ticked ‘no’ to structural movement on their form so they didn’t think there was an issue. I also queried the price as the asking price is up by nearly 40% in just over 2 years. They said that they would check and later sent me an email that says

“She has confirmed that the property was in fact underpinned shortly after the property was built, I have been told this was not due to the trees this was due to the builders not putting the correct footings in. The owner has said that she is likely to have paperwork still from the guarantees that were put in place at the time.

As there has been current buyers, this tells us the property is mortgageable and therefore no structural issue.

Price – They have said they did get this property at a really good price as the previous owners had already moved to Cyprus and needed a quick sale so it’s a case of being in the right place at the right time.

In regard to the current price, we feel this is a fair price to quote considering the comparable properties that are currently on the market.”

Surely the owner should have declared the underpinning to the estate agent? And surely the underpinning would affect the price achieved and won’t be comparable to properties on the market that haven’t been underpinned? Should I run for the hills or stick around and see if the price reduces to something that takes account of the underpinning stigma? 

eddddy

kjs31 said:

Surely the owner should have declared the underpinning to the estate agent? 

Ideally, yes - the seller should have told the estate agent - and then the estate agent could have told you earlier.

But there is no real sanction that you can take against a private seller, for not declaring it.

You can think about whether you think the seller genuinely 'forgot' - or whether they were purposely trying to hide it. If you think they are the type of people to hide information like that, maybe bear in mind that they might be hiding other information.

kjs31 said:

And surely the underpinning would affect the price achieved and won’t be comparable to properties on the market that haven’t been underpinned? 

It depends on the buyers. Some buyers might offer the same; some might feel it's a reason to offer less; some might walk away.

lookstraightahead

We have a house that was underpinned.  It's not moved for thirty years and we know that because the previous owners paid for a structural engineers report which helped with our L3 surveyor (which we paid for)..

I don't think there's particularly anything wrong with buying a house that's been underpinned but you need experts in to check it out. Don't rely on an estate agent or the present owner. 

don't try to get it for less by arguing that it's not structurally sound. It either is or it isn't and you need to find out. Knocking a bit off (for this reason) isn't the right approach. 

by the way, our house is 200 years old and will be up way longer than new houses I'm sure.

tooldle

As above, an underpinned house is a very strong house. You need full details of the work done and for peace of mind a level 3 survey. Someone will no doubt mention insurance. If the underpin was completed some years ago, there is likely to be no impact on the insurance. The only insurance issue we had was the need to stick with the insurer who paid for the work for 5 years. After that we insured without issue on the open market. 

user1977

There is the argument that it's a better buy, given it's had someone recently assess and improve its stability...

Tiglet2

Do you know how long ago the underpinning was done?  Make sure that your solicitor obtains all the relevant paperwork from the seller's solicitor, such as the Certificate of Structural Adequacy and all associated papers that were issued at the time.  If the underpinning was done 20 years ago and there has been no movement since, then you are probably buying a very strong house.  If the underpinning was done 2 years ago, then you won't know yet whether the property is likely to continue moving and whether the underpinning work was adequate.  

kjs31

Tiglet2 said:

Do you know how long ago the underpinning was done?  Make sure that your solicitor obtains all the relevant paperwork from the seller's solicitor, such as the Certificate of Structural Adequacy and all associated papers that were issued at the time.  If the underpinning was done 20 years ago and there has been no movement since, then you are probably buying a very strong house.  If the underpinning was done 2 years ago, then you won't know yet whether the property is likely to continue moving and whether the underpinning work was adequate.  

It was done 20 years ago. The issue with the trees and the property opposite was much more recent. I think I’m ok with buying a house that’s been underpinned as long as the paperwork and survey checks out but I guess I’m concerned that the stigma may make it more difficult to sell in the future and thus affect the sale price. 

[Deleted User]

That stigma is only held by people that don't understand that underpinning is foundations, for the more informed person that stigma won't be there.

ThisIsWeird

Quite possibly the vendor answered accurately with ‘no’ to 'structural movement' on their form, if the underpinning was a pre-emptive move. But, still a bit morally naughty of them to not mention it.

What to do about the price is up to you, but of course you may lose the house as a result.

I would certainly now dismiss the largely-emotive issue of the owner having been less than transparent about this, and just look at the facts - do you have a record and guarantees for the underpinning? Does it affect how you feel towards the house?

stuart45

My daughter lives in an end of Victorian terrace that's been underpinned some time before she bought it. It was never declared and I only found out when digging out the foundations for a porch. It's a block of 4 once owned by the church. Next door and the next house to that was unaware about it, and only the people at the other end had an idea that the whole front flank had been done many years ago.

kjs31

ThisIsWeird said:

What to do about the price is up to you, but of course you may lose the house as a result.

I would certainly now dismiss the largely-emotive issue of the owner having been less than transparent about this, and just look at the facts - do you have a record and guarantees for the underpinning? Does it affect how you feel towards the house?

I feel that the house might be worth a punt at about 50k less. Not interested in it for the price it’s at currently. It was up with a different agent initially and has already dropped by 75k having swapped to a new agent. It’s still over priced IMO so I’ll wait until it drops some more and if it sells in the meantime I won’t be heartbroken. It’s empty currently as the tenants moved out. The owner is selling their current property and this one to purchase a new one. 

A similar one (kitchen isn’t as nice as this one) went under offer a couple of months ago. It started off 130k higher than the final asking price and was on the market for a few months at the final price so I imagine it has gone under offer for less than that.