Vokera Gas Engineer Advice Please

PoGee

I have a rental property. The boiler was working perfectly fine in between tenancies. New tenants moved in at the end of July 2023 and all of a sudden, there's a problem with the boiler. I only found out after the letting agent sent me invoices. I was charged £140 to 'clean sticky condi trap' and £222 to fit and supply 'flow thermostat'. What's a flow thermostat? I was at the flat yesterday - heating is working fine but there is no hot water. Was the flow thermostat meant to sort the 'no hot water' out? I've emailed the letting agent this morning but hope an engineer can give some insight on this platform.

FreeBear

PoGee said: £222 to fit and supply 'flow thermostat'. What's a flow thermostat? I was at the flat yesterday - heating is working fine but there is no hot water. Was the flow thermostat meant to sort the 'no hot water' out?

Without digging further, I suspect the flow thermostat is a small sensor to limit the temperature of the CH circuit. On my boiler (Viessmann) I can set the flow temperature anywhere between 20°C (I think) up to a maximum or 82°C. Inside the boiler, there is a sensor to maintain the set temperature.

If you have a working central heating, but no hot water, that would suggest either a faulty diverter valve, or a blocked heat exchanger. The former should be a relatively cheap fix, the latter will cost more.

ThisIsWeird

I suspect you need a new GasSafe, PoGee.
If these bills are for the jobs described, they sound very high to me.
Condensation traps can fill with debris from both the combustion process (exchanger surface corrosion) and particles being drawn in with the combustion air - dust, flies, you name it... At a certain point, it cannot then drain properly so needs cleaning out. This is usually a very simple job, tho' don't know what it's like for the Vokera. But surely less than an hour's labour cost, and unlikely to require parts?
The flow sensor will likely be a clip-on thermostat on the flow pipe out of the exchanger (there's a return one too). I don't know how hard it is to diagnose as the issue - surely not at all - and it shouldn't be costly (£25-ish?), and on my GlowWorm is a 5-minute job to replace, with 4.5 of this being removing the boiler cover. So, again, it seems very expensive to me.
But, of course, I don't know what they've actually done.

PoGee

Thank you for replies. In between each tenancy, the boiler is working fine - I check to make sure there's hot water, hot radiators. The moment tenants move in, there are mice droppings (but never a mouse or any other rodent) and the boiler goes on the blink. In Dec 2022, I was charged £600 for a boiler repair and it's usually something to do with no hot water. In total, I've been charged over 2k in repairs over 2 years. The boiler is 5 years old. The letting agent gives keys to workmen.....wondering if they go in and leave mouse droppings and fiddle with the boiler, while tenants out. Letting agent always seems to know when tenants won't be in and was very against me putting in indoor security cameras, siting 'privacy laws'. I get charged for pest control, without fail, each year. It's my stupidity for not taking out landlord home emergency cover. Buildings and contents insurance is due in March, which is when I'll buy it.

nofoollikeold

As you are no doubt aware, letting agents take a percentage of the bill for sub-contracted work such as plumbing fixes.  There is thus:
1. An in-built incentive for them to have work undertaken.
2. An additional cost to you.
I believe it is not unknown for some agents to take a further cut from the firm doing the work, which can lead to them using sub-optimal outfits.
Vokera are not generally rated as a top class boiler, and the spares can be expensive.  Nevertheless it sounds as if you have been overcharged.  
 

FreeBear

PoGee said: In Dec 2022, I was charged £600 for a boiler repair and it's usually something to do with no hot water. In total, I've been charged over 2k in repairs over 2 years. The boiler is 5 years old. The letting agent gives keys to workmen.....wondering if they go in and leave mouse droppings and fiddle with the boiler, while tenants out. Letting agent always seems to know when tenants won't be in and was very against me putting in indoor security cameras, siting 'privacy laws'. I get charged for pest control, without fail, each year.

£2K would buy a top end boiler such as Worcester Bosch or Viessmann and still leave change for fitting - You'd also get up to 10/12 years of warranty, so any unexpected breakdowns shouldn't cost anything. I'd also be querying the repair costs on the Vokera as I believe they have a 5 year warranty as standard, and 7 or 10 year on certain models.

As for mice, this is more often than not an issue of the tenant's making. scraps of food (even crumbs dropped on the floor) left lying around can encourage rodents in - Used to have problems with mice here, and took to storing food stuff (particularly flour & grains) in plastic tubs and making sure food spills were cleaned up. Eventually found where they were getting in, and plugged those holes (one was where cables came up through the floor for a pair of sockets, another at the base of a door frame. Since then, no mice.

I would suggest meeting up with the tenants, discuss your concerns about mice and the letting agents visits - Perhaps provide the tenants with some new locks that the LA doesn't have keys for.

PoGee

nofoollikeold said:

As you are no doubt aware, letting agents take a percentage of the bill for sub-contracted work such as plumbing fixes.  There is thus:
1. An in-built incentive for them to have work undertaken.
2. An additional cost to you.
I believe it is not unknown for some agents to take a further cut from the firm doing the work, which can lead to them using sub-optimal outfits.
Vokera are not generally rated as a top class boiler, and the spares can be expensive.  Nevertheless it sounds as if you have been overcharged.  
 

Thank you for reply. I agree I've been over-charged. LA is a greedy two faced 'get'.

PoGee

FreeBear said:

PoGee said: In Dec 2022, I was charged £600 for a boiler repair and it's usually something to do with no hot water. In total, I've been charged over 2k in repairs over 2 years. The boiler is 5 years old. The letting agent gives keys to workmen.....wondering if they go in and leave mouse droppings and fiddle with the boiler, while tenants out. Letting agent always seems to know when tenants won't be in and was very against me putting in indoor security cameras, siting 'privacy laws'. I get charged for pest control, without fail, each year.

£2K would buy a top end boiler such as Worcester Bosch or Viessmann and still leave change for fitting - You'd also get up to 10/12 years of warranty, so any unexpected breakdowns shouldn't cost anything. I'd also be querying the repair costs on the Vokera as I believe they have a 5 year warranty as standard, and 7 or 10 year on certain models.

As for mice, this is more often than not an issue of the tenant's making. scraps of food (even crumbs dropped on the floor) left lying around can encourage rodents in - Used to have problems with mice here, and took to storing food stuff (particularly flour & grains) in plastic tubs and making sure food spills were cleaned up. Eventually found where they were getting in, and plugged those holes (one was where cables came up through the floor for a pair of sockets, another at the base of a door frame. Since then, no mice.

I would suggest meeting up with the tenants, discuss your concerns about mice and the letting agents visits - Perhaps provide the tenants with some new locks that the LA doesn't have keys for.

Thank you for reply. We (me with LA) went over to flat and I attempted to fill the gap where tenant thinks mice getting in from. I contacted SAL who said I should to everything I can to get the entry points sorted out. So means more cost to me as tenants say they saw mice after I plugged the hole. I have an old email (which LA is desperate to get his hands on) from a tradesperson he used to use, where the tradesperson said that LA takes 10% of invoices. That was 10 years ago so it's probably more now but LA denies this, of course - 'I don't and never have taken a penny'. He was trying to get me to get a new boiler last year. I'll change locks after this tenancy and change LAs at same time. It's amazing how greedy people people who already have money, can be.