Landlord wants to keep the holding fee to use as final month's rent, this was not previously agreed

badgermog

Thank you all for the advice given here. To clarify a couple of things mentioned above: yes, I am dealing directly with the private landlord. I cannot find him registered with TPOS or the Housing Ombudsman Service when searching his name and or postcodes of the rental/his address. The money I have paid (equivalent to one month's rent) was only described once in a text from LL to me as money to hold the room from July to Sept. LL has since stated to that there is no deposit associated with the rental (he was stating this in the context of being a fair LL, no extra costs no deposit etc in an effort to convince me that retaining the holding fee for the final month's rent shouldn't be a problem).

So if the LL turns out not to be registered with a property ombudsman, can I proceed with insisting that the holding fee has now become the first month's rent without getting Trading Standards involved? I'm not interested in extra compensation or causing the LL to be fined, I just want to be treated fairly as a tenant in accordance with he law. And although he would have to wait for 4 months to serve a Section 21, would he have any grounds to serve a Section 8 before then? That is, would the document signed by both of us stating that the holding fee became the final month's rent hold up as evidence that Sept rent is unpaid and I am therefore in arrears? I think I know the answer to that, but I want to be absolutely sure before I go ahead with anything. 


@doodling, thank you very much for the template, I would have to slightly modify it as I have now signed a 6 month AST (at the same time as the bogus agreement about holding deposit = final month's rent) but it should still be applicable, the only difference being I am now legally committed to 6 months rent right? I'm still wondering whether I should just lump the whole situation really, but I don't appreciate being told that this is all legal and above board when it clearly isn't.

One final question on something I haven't mentioned elsewhere yet: In the document now signed describing the deposit = final month rent issue, there is a sentence at the end of it which reads:

"Due to the current volatility of gas and electricity prices, a rent review may/could take place anytime on/after moving in."

LL explained that he cannot guarantee rents in the current economic climate and that a rent review would likely take place after Oct. Now, I'm not 100% what the intentions might be there, but it sounds to me like if there were to be a rent increase due to utility bill prices (which are included in the rent) then the LL would want to enforce that with immediate effect. I understand that rent increases often come up following the expiry of a fixed term tenancy, but his would be illegal to do within the agreed 6-month AST right?

housebuyer143

So as not to start on a bad footing, I would personally look at the months rent you paid as the deposit you are guaranteed to get back at the end, because you just don't pay the last months rent. Then just pay the rent now as he wants. 

Yes, it's not what you agreed and I'm not really sure what benefit doing it like this has for the landlord, apart from maybe he really needed the money now.

To add, that rent review clause is completely unfair and not allowed. He can't increase the rent in a fixed term regardless of whether he put that in the contract or not.

deano2099

Yeah while I can appreciate the frustration of this not being what you expected, you're extremely unlikely to find somewhere that doesn't want a security deposit. (Which is often around a month's rent). Certainly anything rented through an agency will have. I'd take this over that any day, as you're guaranteed to get it back without a fight.

It does sound like the landlord has no idea what he's doing, but he also doesn't appear to be trying to rip you off. (If you have gas appliances I'd make sure there's been a gas safety check done- legally required and also important for your safety).

badgermog

deano2099 said:

Yeah while I can appreciate the frustration of this not being what you expected, you're extremely unlikely to find somewhere that doesn't want a security deposit. (Which is often around a month's rent). Certainly anything rented through an agency will have. I'd take this over that any day, as you're guaranteed to get it back without a fight.

It does sound like the landlord has no idea what he's doing, but he also doesn't appear to be trying to rip you off. (If you have gas appliances I'd make sure there's been a gas safety check done- legally required and also important for your safety).

I agree in general, and I would have been happy to pay a security deposit up front in addition to a refundable holding fee and the first month's rent upon moving in. That's not what was asked for though. It's not really about the money, its the principle. I don't want to send the message that this LL can just do as he pleases without regard to the laws around renting and tenants' rights, especially when there looks to be a (potentially illegal) rental hike on the horizon, and a situation where various terms and conditions from a completely separate document regarding house rules and responsibilities might be used as a tool to try and leverage fines or eviction.

I also feel like this whole thing of not sending me a copy of the tenancy agreement and any other conditions when I asked for it in advance was deliberately evasive and designed to trap people like me into feeling like they have no choice but to give away the holding deposit to some unspecified time in the future. That's not what a holding deposit is!

badgermog

Also, are private landlords actually required to register with one of the property ombudsman scheme or property redress scheme? I can't find anything explicitly including private landlords in the relevant parliamentary laws but maybe I'm overlooking something.

deano2099

badgermog said:

I agree in general, and I would have been happy to pay a security deposit up front in addition to a refundable holding fee and the first month's rent upon moving in. That's not what was asked for though. It's not really about the money, its the principle. I don't want to send the message that this LL can just do as he pleases without regard to the laws around renting and tenants' rights, especially when there looks to be a (potentially illegal) rental hike on the horizon, and a situation where various terms and conditions from a completely separate document regarding house rules and responsibilities might be used as a tool to try and leverage fines or eviction.

I also feel like this whole thing of not sending me a copy of the tenancy agreement and any other conditions when I asked for it in advance was deliberately evasive and designed to trap people like me into feeling like they have no choice but to give away the holding deposit to some unspecified time in the future. That's not what a holding deposit is!

The way I would look at is: do you want to educate this landlord, and get him so he knows exactly what he should be doing, exactly what his rights are, and exactly what he can and can't do? Because that's admirable really!
Or do you want to leave this knowledge disparity in place (you know more than he does) and be able to leverage that to your own advantage in the future?
Are you intending to stay for long? Because I suspect if you're on a fixed term once he realises he's not done the security deposit right, he'll likely want to renegotiate with a security deposit...

Principals are great, but my experience is it's better to let the landlord screw up in silence if it's not having a material impact on you or you standard of living, and use that down the line for your own benefit.

propertyrental

No. As I acknowledged earlier  misled you by assuming this was an agent. My bad.

A landlord does not need to register wth ombudsman.

I agree with others - you've saved yourself paying (a month's rent?) as deposit, suck it up now. Pay rent monthly, avoid arrears, but don't be bullied into paying the last months rent. Do, however learn in advance how/when to end the tenancy properly.

There's clearly  discrepancy between the text he sent describing that 1st payment as holding deposit, and the tenancy agreement you've now signed so I think that boat has sailed.

To clarify the utility costs/rent review:
* does the tenancy agreement say utlities (gas, leccy) are included in the rent (which is unusual - usually it's up to the tenant to open accounts with the utility companies). PLEASE QUOTE EXACTLY.
* are 'bills' (utilities) quoted separately from the rent in the TA?
* if bills are included, is there a 'fair usage' clause? Please quote.
* is this an HMO (ie you are sharing with multiple other tenants, all on separate tenancies)?
* is council tax included? PLEASE QUOTE THE TA
* are you a lodger? Does the LL live there too?

badgermog

propertyrental said:

No. As I acknowledged earlier  misled you by assuming this was an agent. My bad.

A landlord does not need to register wth ombudsman.

I agree with others - you've saved yourself paying (a month's rent?) as deposit, suck it up now. Pay rent monthly, avoid arrears, but don't be bullied into paying the last months rent. Do, however learn in advance how/when to end the tenancy properly.

There's clearly  discrepancy between the text he sent describing that 1st payment as holding deposit, and the tenancy agreement you've now signed so I think that boat has sailed.

To clarify the utility costs/rent review:
* does the tenancy agreement say utlities (gas, leccy) are included in the rent (which is unusual - usually it's up to the tenant to open accounts with the utility companies). PLEASE QUOTE EXACTLY.
* are 'bills' (utilities) quoted separately from the rent in the TA?
* if bills are included, is there a 'fair usage' clause? Please quote.
* is this an HMO (ie you are sharing with multiple other tenants, all on separate tenancies)?
* is council tax included? PLEASE QUOTE THE TA
* are you a lodger? Does the LL live there too?

So I can't believe I've overlooked this, I was too caught up in the holding fee issue to go through everything else in the short space of time between being notified about this AST being left in the property and the LL coming round to sign everything yesterday.... but its no different to a standard AST template where one of the tenant's obligations listed is to pay all utilities and council tax charges for the property. So even though no tenant currently is, and the room was listed as all bills included, rent only.... thats not what I've agreed to with the AST. So I guess he might actually be able to get away with any price increases then if they can be simply lumped under the category of utility bills? Or does that particular term in the AST become unenforcible if a LL advertises it as bills included and begins the tenancy in that manner?

Edit: quoting the TA:

2. The tenant's obligations
 2.1 to pay the rent on time
 2.2 to pay all charges in respect of any electric, gas. sewage and telephonic or televisual services used at or supplied to the property and council tax or any similar property tax that might be charged in addition of it during the term.

Edit 2:

* are 'bills' (utilities) quoted separately from the rent in the TA?
 - They are not mentioned other than the tenant obligation I quoted above.The rent is only described as an amount due on 1st of each month, no reference to bills there.

* if bills are included, is there a 'fair usage' clause? Please quote.
 - Not on the TA but there is an accompanying document with agreed guidelines laid out by LL that we both signed with stipulations to use washing lines or radiator hangers to dry stuff in summer rather than tumble dryer, and another stipulation to use electrical resources like dishwasher, tumble dryer and washing machine sparingly (and at night where possible, cheaper electric rate).
 That all seems a bit fussy but not particularly unreasonable at all, I'm perfectly happy to comply with all that sort of thing even if I don't think this whole 'agreement' (which explicitly states its not part of the TA) is not legally enforcable.

* is this an HMO (ie you are sharing with multiple other tenants, all on separate tenancies)?
 Correct, HMO with separate tenancies for each individual.

* is council tax included? PLEASE QUOTE THE TA
 - Not excplicitly, but none of the tenants pay council tax as a separate bill, the rent is effectively all inclusive (even though the TA states otherwise)

* are you a lodger? Does the LL live there too?
 - Not a lodger, landlord lives elsewhere locally. I believe he may have lived in this rental property at one point many years ago, but not sure.

BobT36

You could argue that by paying him, you ARE paying the utility bills. 
However I'd prefer to pay & manage them myself tbh to ensure I'm not being ripped off... I doubt he'd be providing you with copies of the bills or a breakdown. 

No chance of rent review during the fixed period, it's completely open and non-specific. I got that ripped out of my own tenancy before signing, along with a clause about "no adhesives screws / nails" etc on the walls and got it replaced with a "make good" clause. Quite often landlords just use templates and it's up to you to negotiate. Unfortunately you didn't press him enough about getting to see it BEFORE you got there. 

My landlord (who's actually been great) did the same, wanted me to agree to a tenancy and giving them a (tenancy) deposit before I'd even seen the agreement lol, and I was moving long distance too. I demanded a draft copy be sent to me, reviewed it, negotiated terms (backed up by law), agreed a final version, then signed it remotely (I'd have been ok with on arrival, as long as had time to check it matched the draft..). 

Whatever's in the tenancy agreement is overridden by law, where that conflicts. You cannot sign away your statutory rights. A proper rent review clause also has to be VERY specific and clear, they can't just write "I'll put the rent up whenever I feel like it" (during the FIXED period, and even outside of that there's still a process). 

Simply confirm by e-mail that (unless you need it now) you agree the money to be used for your final month's rent, and your rent payments (for this tenancy period) will end on the month beforehand. Then keep zipped about it. Anywhere else you'd be paying at least 1 month rent, a holding deposit, and a tenancy deposit, all up-front. You'd also potentially forfeit that tenancy deposit if they won a dispute with whatever scheme it was secured in, so you'd be no better off. With this being the "final month's rent" he only has the option of court to claim anything back from you. 

Clearly a "make it up as goes along" landlord but it benefits you in this case. Do some research on proper rent review cases, (just in-case it's challenged) and also get absolute clarity on what's happening with all the bills. Whether you pay them via him or yourself is up to you but if the former, make sure you get some proper statements.

badgermog

BobT36 said:

You could argue that by paying him, you ARE paying the utility bills. 
However I'd prefer to pay & manage them myself tbh to ensure I'm not being ripped off... I doubt he'd be providing you with copies of the bills or a breakdown. 

No chance of rent review during the fixed period, it's completely open and non-specific. I got that ripped out of my own tenancy before signing, along with a clause about "no adhesives screws / nails" etc on the walls and got it replaced with a "make good" clause. Quite often landlords just use templates and it's up to you to negotiate. Unfortunately you didn't press him enough about getting to see it BEFORE you got there. 

So if a rent hike is proposed come Oct, I just refuse? Is this not encompassed in the obligation for the tenant to pay all bills associated with the rental? What are the statutory rights you speak of that might be in conflict here, can I find them in Housing Act 1988? Rent Act 1977? Or somewhere else? No problem searching legal documents if I know where to look.

BobT36 said:

Clearly a "make it up as goes along" landlord but it benefits you in this case. Do some research on proper rent review cases, (just in-case it's challenged) and also get absolute clarity on what's happening with all the bills. Whether you pay them via him or yourself is up to you but if the former, make sure you get some proper statements.

How to get clarity on the bills? If I ask for an amendment to the TA the LL will flat out refuse, I guarantee it. He has been pretty non-negotiable in general and clearly values some perceived right to amend the bills, I'm just anxious it might actually fly because I overlooked that bit on the TA.

"You could argue that by paying him, you ARE paying the utility bills." 

would that ever hold up?