Divorce - Honesty is not the best policy?

Slinky

If you gave her a £5K watch and she's lost it, given it away or whatever, then she's still had £5K out of the marital 'pot'. Just because she no longer has it, if she didn't give it back to you, why should she be able to effectively claim another £2.5K of assets from the pot to make up for her carelessness?  That's the point I'd be making.

And another thing, does any self-respecting judge believe that all the expensive gifts in the relationship were given by her to you?

I get cross when I read this sort of thing. My Dad was completely honest with his paperwork, my mother lied on hers, turned the taps on and the judge believed her, and my dad ended up shelling out maintenance to her for the rest of his life. It cost her dear though, her children have never spoken to her since (40 years).

Julz94

Sorry to Bumb  this thread, i am going through the same thing and seems like it all common. 

18 months since my wife left FMH. Financial remedy Court proceeding Have  been opened. 

We had voluntary form e exchange last year. On my questionnaire i asked her while she did not disclose Rolex watch i bought for her worth £9k. 

Her response was she left it behind when she left FMH.  ( she left while i was not home and emptied house) 

I can not prove this but anyone common sense can see she is lying. 

Do the courts/judges even care ? 

however from this point of her response.  i reported it stolen to police and rolex register. 

Surely if she left it ‘behind’ as she said, she would of asked me to declare it on my form E ? But she never.  

If she knew i had £10k worth of jewels in house that would been one of her first questions, but she instead asks me why i did not declare £3k in designer bags ?  

I also ask her to declare diamond ring i bought for her, but they claim does not fall part of disclosure. And it’s only worth a mere £200. 

So one does NOT forget to take a £200 ring but leaves rolex watch worth £9k behind. 

Make it make sense. 

This whole thing has been toxic, her solicitor has tried to bully and intimate me. 

considering it’s such little equity in the house,  these small assets like the watch will need to be taken into account in my opinionZ 

How it one meant to prove anything in this case. it’s not like we keep cctv in our bedrooms. 

I am going in as a LIP. 

Malthusian

Julz94 said:

Do the courts/judges even care ? 

About an item whose existence nobody can prove? Probably not. Since nobody knows where it is, the obvious option for the courts is to assume it was in fact lost or thrown away as an unhappy and unwanted reminder of a broken-down marriage, and divide the marital assets accordingly. Unless she's posting photos of her wearing it on public social media. (There's no point in having a £9k watch if you're not wearing it out and about.)

Who did you tell the police had stolen it? It was a gift to her so she can't steal her own property. If you told them somebody else has stolen it, then you are now on record as agreeing with her position that she doesn't have it and it has been lost, so it can't be part of the marital assets. 

however from this point of her response.  i reported it stolen to police and rolex register. 

Surely if she left it ‘behind’ as she said, she would of asked me to declare it on my form E ? But she never.  

If she knew i had £10k worth of jewels in house that would been one of her first questions, but she instead asks me why i did not declare £3k in designer bags ?  

Seems a valid question to me. If the answer is "I don't have any bags" then that's your valid answer. If she has no evidence they exist then they won't be taken into account in the split either. 

I also ask her to declare diamond ring i bought for her, but they claim does not fall part of disclosure. And it’s only worth a mere £200. 

Then she is correct. As it's worth less than £500 it doesn't need to be declared. 

People down the pub are not going to be able to help you with this and if you really want to contest this, you need proper legal advice.

It would likely cost you far more than £9,000 to fight over this watch whose existence you can't prove, or over other petty matters. Although you don't have a solicitor, she does, and her solicitor should easily be able to argue that the legal costs of your intransigence should not fall entirely on your ex-wife.

Olinda99

one thing you can be sure of is the courts have seen this all before - many times

once you get to the financial hearing you need to raise the fact about these different accounts and the court will instruct the other party to be truthful or risk being in contempt of court

VyEu

Have you exchanged questionnaires? I'm surprised no one has raised this.if she denied in replies it exists but then you have proof it does exist, that doesn't look good for her. From your post it appears the asset is high value i.e. worth raising. At the second hearing , get, speak to your solicitor or/and barrister, they can give you better steer with knowledge over all the assets (which is the main thing at the end of the day)

Grumpy_chap

T.T.D said:

It’s a Watch bought for 15k but not necessarily worth 15k and courts recognise that during the course of a marriage or relationship people can buy lavish gifts for each other that appreciate or depreciate in value and that there is no automatic refund upon divorce.

Exodi said:

Gifts are assets, assets are to be disclosed as part of divorce proceedings. The OP has disclosed the gifts he received.

The key thing here is the value at the time of the separation and the value that is part of the joint assets to be divided in an equitable manner.

A £1k designer handbag, purchased a few years back and used a bit has probably depreciated in value.  Whatever residual second-hand value it might have is probably not worth quibbling over.

A £15k Rolex watch, purchased a few years back, may well now be worth £50k or £60k.  It is also an easily liquifiable asset so should, IMO, be treated much the same as the similar value in bank deposits.

SteveVy

Julz94 said:

Sorry to Bumb  this thread, i am going through the same thing and seems like it all common. 

18 months since my wife left FMH. Financial remedy Court proceeding Have  been opened. 

We had voluntary form e exchange last year. On my questionnaire i asked her while she did not disclose Rolex watch i bought for her worth £9k. 

Her response was she left it behind when she left FMH.  ( she left while i was not home and emptied house) 

I can not prove this but anyone common sense can see she is lying. 

Do the courts/judges even care ? 

however from this point of her response.  i reported it stolen to police and rolex register. 

Surely if she left it ‘behind’ as she said, she would of asked me to declare it on my form E ? But she never.  

If she knew i had £10k worth of jewels in house that would been one of her first questions, but she instead asks me why i did not declare £3k in designer bags ?  

I also ask her to declare diamond ring i bought for her, but they claim does not fall part of disclosure. And it’s only worth a mere £200. 

So one does NOT forget to take a £200 ring but leaves rolex watch worth £9k behind. 

Make it make sense. 

This whole thing has been toxic, her solicitor has tried to bully and intimate me. 

considering it’s such little equity in the house,  these small assets like the watch will need to be taken into account in my opinionZ 

How it one meant to prove anything in this case. it’s not like we keep cctv in our bedrooms. 

I am going in as a LIP. 

Hey I just wanted to give you my advice, its impossible to prove she left the item or has taken it...its your word against hers and the courts won't care...

My divorce is now finished however, she got to keep all my items including everything in the house (TV, Gym Equipment, Computer Equipment, my tools etc)  she got all the gifts I gave her AND she also got all the gifts back that she gave me...I argued and argued with her but constantly it came down to "prove it", I had witness statements from neighbours confirming she removed all my items but none of this made any difference.

How is this fair you ask? its simple not fair but after consulting with various legal experts they advised me that the cost of going to court and battling this is simple not worth the money or time...

It was difficult to get through but they you have to separate yourself from these possessions...

Julz94

SteveVy said:

Julz94 said:

Sorry to Bumb  this thread, i am going through the same thing and seems like it all common. 

18 months since my wife left FMH. Financial remedy Court proceeding Have  been opened. 

We had voluntary form e exchange last year. On my questionnaire i asked her while she did not disclose Rolex watch i bought for her worth £9k. 

Her response was she left it behind when she left FMH.  ( she left while i was not home and emptied house) 

I can not prove this but anyone common sense can see she is lying. 

Do the courts/judges even care ? 

however from this point of her response.  i reported it stolen to police and rolex register. 

Surely if she left it ‘behind’ as she said, she would of asked me to declare it on my form E ? But she never.  

If she knew i had £10k worth of jewels in house that would been one of her first questions, but she instead asks me why i did not declare £3k in designer bags ?  

I also ask her to declare diamond ring i bought for her, but they claim does not fall part of disclosure. And it’s only worth a mere £200. 

So one does NOT forget to take a £200 ring but leaves rolex watch worth £9k behind. 

Make it make sense. 

This whole thing has been toxic, her solicitor has tried to bully and intimate me. 

considering it’s such little equity in the house,  these small assets like the watch will need to be taken into account in my opinionZ 

How it one meant to prove anything in this case. it’s not like we keep cctv in our bedrooms. 

I am going in as a LIP. 

Hey I just wanted to give you my advice, its impossible to prove she left the item or has taken it...its your word against hers and the courts won't care...

My divorce is now finished however, she got to keep all my items including everything in the house (TV, Gym Equipment, Computer Equipment, my tools etc)  she got all the gifts I gave her AND she also got all the gifts back that she gave me...I argued and argued with her but constantly it came down to "prove it", I had witness statements from neighbours confirming she removed all my items but none of this made any difference.

How is this fair you ask? its simple not fair but after consulting with various legal experts they advised me that the cost of going to court and battling this is simple not worth the money or time...

It was difficult to get through but they you have to separate yourself from these possessions...

update; first hearing fast approaching. 
she is now conveniently  unemployed from her 50k salary job just before court proceeding have opened. as per  form E
her linkedin has been updated as residing in canada, and has a Canadian bank account to top it off. 

I could not provide 3 properties suitable for her as i have no idea where she's living. 
but she still claims that she will need a property local to the FMH. 
has  not paid rent since leaving FMH, but intents to 'rent' in the future. 
when one had the financial means on 50k per year to find suitable accommodation for the last 20 months.
her bank statements show a lavish lifestyle of shopping at designer stores and visiting Canada on 5 occasions in past 12 months and other European destinations.  

to top it off, she is asking me to declare the Rolex watch ( part of her questionnaire ) so she's trying to stick it on me. 
why did it not fall part of her voluntary questionnaire ?
 I have sent proof to court of the different accounts on her questionnaire, and as soon as i received a response as  'it was left behind'
i have  declared it stolen. the insurance at the time had expired. what use would a uninsured, stolen/lost registered watch, be of use to me if was in my possession ? 

but i guess this won't be proof enough when it's clear who has it. 

and after all this, it's me who will get bent over.