Temp then perm in the same job: rights on severence pay?

EasyToAssemble01

I'm not being made redundant right now, but I wanted to find out my rights to severance pay in the event that this should happen in the future.

My current job has been permanent since 2018, but prior to this, I was doing the exact same role as a rolling temp for around 5 years (my organisation is large, and created it's own temping company for recruiting temp staff in-house, as well as outsourcing temp staff externally).

Nothing about the job role has changed. I - and my team - simply got moved to a permanent contracts after our Line Manager kept pushing for them to make us permanent, and HR / management were dragging their feet on it. 

What (if any) rights might I have to severence pay covering the period when I was a temp, given that the job role hasn't changed, and they were apparently slow to give me a permanent contract?

Brie

You were a temp and therefore that period would not be covered in any redundancy payment.  I had a shorter temp time at a company (6 months) and then nearly 10 years as permanent but that first 6 months wasn't included.  Unfortunately you aren't official until you're official no matter who's to blame.

EasyToAssemble01

Brie said:

You were a temp and therefore that period would not be covered in any redundancy payment.  I had a shorter temp time at a company (6 months) and then nearly 10 years as permanent but that first 6 months wasn't included.  Unfortunately you aren't official until you're official no matter who's to blame.

Yes, I know that's the official line. But, I wondered if being in the temp role for 5 years demonstrates that it was clearly a role that could have been made permanent at an earlier point.

Hopefully, I can build up at least a few more years of service, so any payout will be reasonably decent if the worst happens.

lincroft1710

EasyToAssemble01 said:

Brie said:

You were a temp and therefore that period would not be covered in any redundancy payment.  I had a shorter temp time at a company (6 months) and then nearly 10 years as permanent but that first 6 months wasn't included.  Unfortunately you aren't official until you're official no matter who's to blame.

Yes, I know that's the official line. But, I wondered if being in the temp role for 5 years demonstrates that it was clearly a role that could have been made permanent at an earlier point.

But it wasn't, and that is what matters, what actually happened not what could have happened

Andy_L

Was there a break in service between the temp role and becoming permanent?

If there was (I think it has to be 1 week+) then your temp service doesn't count. If there wasn't then it does

NB that's assuming statutory redundancy. 

amanda1024

As I understand it, for statutory purposes after 12 weeks you have the same rights as permanent employees and after two years you have 'full' employment rights - assuming no gaps. But if your employer offers more than the statutory for redundancy etc that might come down to the specific Ts&Cs in your contract as to how the different periods are accounted for. 

EnPointe

EasyToAssemble01 said:

I'm not being made redundant right now, but I wanted to find out my rights to severance pay in the event that this should happen in the future.

My current job has been permanent since 2018, but prior to this, I was doing the exact same role as a rolling temp for around 5 years (my organisation is large, and created it's own temping company for recruiting temp staff in-house, as well as outsourcing temp staff externally).

Nothing about the job role has changed. I - and my team - simply got moved to a permanent contracts after our Line Manager kept pushing for them to make us permanent, and HR / management were dragging their feet on it. 

What (if any) rights might I have to severence pay covering the period when I was a temp, given that the job role hasn't changed, and they were apparently slow to give me a permanent contract?

created it's own temping company ?   or employed people on ZHCs ?  

 this might be pertinent 

TheSpiddalKid

What may also be pertinent here is more details on the temp company. 

The below is from s.218 of the Employment Rights Act 1996

218. (6) If an employee of an employer is taken into the employment of another employer who, at the time when the employee enters the second employer’s employment, is an associated employer of the first employer—

(a)        the employee’s period of employment at that time counts as a period of employment with the second employer, and

(b)        the change of employer does not break the continuity of the period of employment.

The key phrase of Associated Employer is defined in law at S.231

231. For the purposes of this Act any two employers shall be treated as associated if—

(a)        one is a company of which the other (directly or indirectly) has control, or

(b)        both are companies of which a third person (directly or indirectly) has control;

and “associated employer” shall be construed accordingly.

So, the context and detail could be very relevant when you say it is a temp company owned by your employer.

 

 

FIREDreamer

EasyToAssemble01 said:

I'm not being made redundant right now, but I wanted to find out my rights to severance pay in the event that this should happen in the future.

My current job has been permanent since 2018, but prior to this, I was doing the exact same role as a rolling temp for around 5 years (my organisation is large, and created it's own temping company for recruiting temp staff in-house, as well as outsourcing temp staff externally).

Nothing about the job role has changed. I - and my team - simply got moved to a permanent contracts after our Line Manager kept pushing for them to make us permanent, and HR / management were dragging their feet on it. 

What (if any) rights might I have to severence pay covering the period when I was a temp, given that the job role hasn't changed, and they were apparently slow to give me a permanent contract?

Brie said:

You were a temp and therefore that period would not be covered in any redundancy payment.  I had a shorter temp time at a company (6 months) and then nearly 10 years as permanent but that first 6 months wasn't included.  Unfortunately you aren't official until you're official no matter who's to blame.

I was on a temp contract for 2 years before being made permanent. The two years were not pensionable.

When made redundant some 8 years later, the whole 10 year period was allowed for in calculating redundancy pay (4 weeks pay for each year of service, wouldn’t get that much in the private sector now!).

…so I guess it depends on the employer and your staff terms and conditions.

EDIT: This was 16 years ago.