Sense Check Please Regarding my rights

Iiyama

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Iiyama said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP can you advise please, when you were given a price for these works was the battery price itemised?

Regarding the works itemized. Yes, they were.

Thank you OP

So if the price was £x000 for the battery this is a supply of goods and as you've notified of them of an issue you are now in the waiting period.

(8)The waiting period—

(a)begins with the day the consumer requests or agrees to the repair or replacement of the goods, and

(b)ends with the day on which the consumer receives goods supplied by the trader in response to the request or agreement.

As you've requested a replacement battery and are in the waiting period until they do*, you may exercise the short term right to reject (everything out for a full refund) at any point from now until:  

(a)7 days after the waiting period ends, or

(b)if later, the original time limit for exercising that right, extended by the waiting period.

*If they have said replacing the battery is too expensive compared to repairing it then a repair instead is acceptable with the exact same principle regarding the waiting time. 

If you exercise the short term right to reject and they do have to rip the whole system out and you are left with damage (such as holes in your roof), they are liability for the cost of repairs (as damages), although with the short term right to reject the burden of proof (that there is a problem with the goods) falls upon yourself.

Alternatively I would suggest, if they do not replace/repair the battery you may instead exercise the final right to reject (which for the first 6 months places the burden of proof upon the trader rather than you) and you may simply reject those goods that do not conform meaning you are entitled to just reject the battery and keep the rest of the system, this way you would only have to rip everything out if you chose to reject everything*. Within 6 months they must refund the full costs of the goods without a deduction. 

I think you need to put your position in writing with a timeframe, something along the lines of:

Dear Solar Company

In follow up to our previous communications with regards to order/job number/invoice xxxx I am sending this letter to notify you of my position.

As I advised on DATE I believe that the battery supplied did not conform to the contract upon the day of delivery due to it failing to hold charge and as such a replacement battery has been requested, as I am entitled to under Section 23 of the Consumer Rights Act.

You are obligated to provide that replacement within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to myself, should you not replace the battery with one that does conform to the contract within x days of the date of this letter I shall exercise the final right to reject the battery and seek a full refund of the price of the battery and additionally, as damages, the mitigated costs of; it's removal, the replacement installation, any addition in price of the replacement battery itself. 

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter, I look forward to amicably resolving the matter without undue delay.

Sincerely,
Iiyama

 
I would send it by email and send a hard copy in the post. I think 28 days is reasonable for them to replace the battery. Their issues or communication with the battery manufacturer is nothing to do with yourself so they can't blame them for not meeting the 28 day timeframe. 

*Simply rejecting the battery if the rest of the system is OK seems sensible, however the advice above is incorrect in that you may either reject the goods that do not conform or all of the goods under the contract.

As an aside the only thing you may not do is:

Order A, B & C 
A is faulty
Reject A & B but keep C.

Hopefully you can get this resolved but please do post back for further advice if needed  

Thank you so much for an incredibly detailed response to my situation. As the solar company have not been able to get the battery manufacturer to come out and look at the fault and or replace the battery. What can I do after the 30 days (from 6th September  when I brought the issue to their attention) ? Do I need to progress it through the small claims court? 

I will let you know how things progress 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Iiyama said:

Thank you so much for an incredibly detailed response to my situation. As the solar company have not been able to get the battery manufacturer to come out and look at the fault and or replace the battery. What can I do after the 30 days (from 6th September  when I brought the issue to their attention) ? Do I need to progress it through the small claims court? 

I will let you know how things progress 

My pleasure  

I would send them the basic letter above and whilst waiting the x days you stipulate have a look at if it is feasible to buy the same battery somewhere else and how much it's going to cost for someone to take out the defective battery and put in the new one. 

If after x days they still haven't replaced the battery send them a proper letter before action stating you are exercising the final right to reject the battery for it's full value of £x and seeking £x in damages to swap the batteries over and if they don't pay within 28 days of that letter you'll begin small claims without further notice. 

You'd hope they give in long before you have to actually file through small claims given they have no defence. 

OP a word of caution, if you do have someone else out to swap over the battery, may sure you keep the defective battery until the original company collect it as it will belong to them and disposing of it may cause headache  

Iiyama

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Iiyama said:

Thank you so much for an incredibly detailed response to my situation. As the solar company have not been able to get the battery manufacturer to come out and look at the fault and or replace the battery. What can I do after the 30 days (from 6th September  when I brought the issue to their attention) ? Do I need to progress it through the small claims court? 

I will let you know how things progress 

My pleasure  

I would send them the basic letter above and whilst waiting the x days you stipulate have a look at if it is feasible to buy the same battery somewhere else and how much it's going to cost for someone to take out the defective battery and put in the new one. 

If after x days they still haven't replaced the battery send them a proper letter before action stating you are exercising the final right to reject the battery for it's full value of £x and seeking £x in damages to swap the batteries over and if they don't pay within 28 days of that letter you'll begin small claims without further notice. 

You'd hope they give in long before you have to actually file through small claims given they have no defence. 

OP a word of caution, if you do have someone else out to swap over the battery, may sure you keep the defective battery until the original company collect it as it will belong to them and disposing of it may cause headache  

Update and further advice please:

The above suggested action was not done as I got a date for an engineer from the battery company to complete a site visit. That has now taken place and he has concluded that the hardware is ok. However, installer did not commission the system fully therefore it was never going to work as expected.

My question  is how do I go about seeking compensation from the company the work was contracted with. I have held back £1,000 from the final balance but they will be asking for this payment anytime now.

Guidance appreciated. 

Okell

Iiyama said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Iiyama said:

Thank you so much for an incredibly detailed response to my situation. As the solar company have not been able to get the battery manufacturer to come out and look at the fault and or replace the battery. What can I do after the 30 days (from 6th September  when I brought the issue to their attention) ? Do I need to progress it through the small claims court? 

I will let you know how things progress 

My pleasure  

I would send them the basic letter above and whilst waiting the x days you stipulate have a look at if it is feasible to buy the same battery somewhere else and how much it's going to cost for someone to take out the defective battery and put in the new one. 

If after x days they still haven't replaced the battery send them a proper letter before action stating you are exercising the final right to reject the battery for it's full value of £x and seeking £x in damages to swap the batteries over and if they don't pay within 28 days of that letter you'll begin small claims without further notice. 

You'd hope they give in long before you have to actually file through small claims given they have no defence. 

OP a word of caution, if you do have someone else out to swap over the battery, may sure you keep the defective battery until the original company collect it as it will belong to them and disposing of it may cause headache  

Update and further advice please:

The above suggested action was not done as I got a date for an engineer from the battery company to complete a site visit. That has now taken place and he has concluded that the hardware is ok. However, installer did not commission the system fully therefore it was never going to work as expected.

My question  is how do I go about seeking compensation from the company the work was contracted with. I have held back £1,000 from the final balance but they will be asking for this payment anytime now.

Guidance appreciated. 

As I understand it there are three other parties involved here - the solar panel company, the battery company, and the installation company - but you only have a contract with the first of those companies, yes?

If yes, then they haven't supplied what you paid for - a fully working system.  And the cause of that is that their sub-contracted installer didn't do their job properly.

You tell the solar panel company you contracted with that they agreed to supply and install a fully working system, and that you won't be paying any more to them until they have rectified the faulty installation and the system is working as per the contract.

(Two other points:  first, if you've suffered any quantifiable financial loss as a result of the faulty installation, you should consider claiming that back from the solar panel company.  And second, if the solar panel company decide they'd rather forego your £1000 retention because it would be too much hassle or too costly to put the installation right, you will need to sue them for the cost of putting it right as well)

Iiyama

Okell said:

Iiyama said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Iiyama said:

Thank you so much for an incredibly detailed response to my situation. As the solar company have not been able to get the battery manufacturer to come out and look at the fault and or replace the battery. What can I do after the 30 days (from 6th September  when I brought the issue to their attention) ? Do I need to progress it through the small claims court? 

I will let you know how things progress 

My pleasure  

I would send them the basic letter above and whilst waiting the x days you stipulate have a look at if it is feasible to buy the same battery somewhere else and how much it's going to cost for someone to take out the defective battery and put in the new one. 

If after x days they still haven't replaced the battery send them a proper letter before action stating you are exercising the final right to reject the battery for it's full value of £x and seeking £x in damages to swap the batteries over and if they don't pay within 28 days of that letter you'll begin small claims without further notice. 

You'd hope they give in long before you have to actually file through small claims given they have no defence. 

OP a word of caution, if you do have someone else out to swap over the battery, may sure you keep the defective battery until the original company collect it as it will belong to them and disposing of it may cause headache  

Update and further advice please:

The above suggested action was not done as I got a date for an engineer from the battery company to complete a site visit. That has now taken place and he has concluded that the hardware is ok. However, installer did not commission the system fully therefore it was never going to work as expected.

My question  is how do I go about seeking compensation from the company the work was contracted with. I have held back £1,000 from the final balance but they will be asking for this payment anytime now.

Guidance appreciated. 

As I understand it there are three other parties involved here - the solar panel company, the battery company, and the installation company - but you only have a contract with the first of those companies, yes?

If yes, then they haven't supplied what you paid for - a fully working system.  And the cause of that is that their sub-contracted installer didn't do their job properly.

You tell the solar panel company you contracted with that they agreed to supply and install a fully working system, and that you won't be paying any more to them until they have rectified the faulty installation and the system is working as per the contract.

(Two other points:  first, if you've suffered any quantifiable financial loss as a result of the faulty installation, you should consider claiming that back from the solar panel company.  And second, if the solar panel company decide they'd rather forego your £1000 retention because it would be too much hassle or too costly to put the installation right, you will need to sue them for the cost of putting it right as well)

I think my post isn't clear. But to clarify:

You are correct my contract is with the first company who have now paid for the battery manufacturer to send an engineer out.

The visit by the manufacturer engineer today has fixed the problem. He identified that the problem was not a hardware fault but the problem was caused by the original installer who was a sub contractor failed to commission my system correctly, hence it wouldn't've work as purchased.

Okell

So are you saying it is now fixed and working correctly?

If yes - then you now owe the first company the £1000 that you retained.

You can only claim compensation from them for any quantifiable financial losses you have suffered as a result of the faulty installation.  Did you suffer any?

If you did then I suggest you deduct an appropriate amount from the £1000.  But make it clear to them what you are doing, and itemise your losses together with proof.

If your losses were greater than that, discuss it with the company.  If the two of you can't reach a mutually acceptable resolution you might want to consider suing them - if it would be worth your while.

You basically can't claim "compensation" for inconvenience, but there's nothing to stop you raising this with the company and you might get a goodwill payment.

Iiyama

Update to complete thread.

Thanks for all the advice. The solar company have agreed to a discount off the final balance that I have agreed to.

They have been challenging to deal with as despite my letter they refused to have the installer return. They refused to accept responsibility and continued to say they were doing all that they could.

According to the GivEnergy engineer that was sent out to resolve the problem. I'm also  left with a system that I cannot add additional panels to without considerable expense due to the installation at capacity on a single string. This is something that again should have been picked up at survey and installation.

My advice based on my own experience to anyone getting Solar and a battery installed is:

• To check that the system has been fully commissioned before the installers leave otherwise it wont be fully operational
• When an onsite survey is completed ask what the company will do if on arrival to complete the installation they realise more panels can be installed? (I've had other companies advise that they carry extra panels on the van for this exact situation occurring)
• Always pay a minimum of £100 on a credit card. I suspect many MSE members already know this
• Don't pay the final balance until the system is fully operational
• Do a deep dive into the company. Not just reviews but check the company on Companies House and The Gazette Official Public Records site.

born_again

Iiyama said:

Update to complete thread.

Thanks for all the advice. The solar company have agreed to a discount off the final balance that I have agreed to.

They have been challenging to deal with as despite my letter they refused to have the installer return. They refused to accept responsibility and continued to say they were doing all that they could.

According to the GivEnergy engineer that was sent out to resolve the problem. I'm also  left with a system that I cannot add additional panels to without considerable expense due to the installation at capacity on a single string. This is something that again should have been picked up at survey and installation.

My advice based on my own experience to anyone getting Solar and a battery installed is:

• To check that the system has been fully commissioned before the installers leave otherwise it wont be fully operational
• When an onsite survey is completed ask what the company will do if on arrival to complete the installation they realise more panels can be installed? (I've had other companies advise that they carry extra panels on the van for this exact situation occurring)
• Always pay a minimum of £100 on a credit card. I suspect many MSE members already know this
• Don't pay the final balance until the system is fully operational
• Do a deep dive into the company. Not just reviews but check the company on Companies House and The Gazette Official Public Records site.

For S75 you only need to pay 1p...

Iiyama

born_again said:

Iiyama said:

Update to complete thread.

Thanks for all the advice. The solar company have agreed to a discount off the final balance that I have agreed to.

They have been challenging to deal with as despite my letter they refused to have the installer return. They refused to accept responsibility and continued to say they were doing all that they could.

According to the GivEnergy engineer that was sent out to resolve the problem. I'm also  left with a system that I cannot add additional panels to without considerable expense due to the installation at capacity on a single string. This is something that again should have been picked up at survey and installation.

My advice based on my own experience to anyone getting Solar and a battery installed is:

• To check that the system has been fully commissioned before the installers leave otherwise it wont be fully operational
• When an onsite survey is completed ask what the company will do if on arrival to complete the installation they realise more panels can be installed? (I've had other companies advise that they carry extra panels on the van for this exact situation occurring)
• Always pay a minimum of £100 on a credit card. I suspect many MSE members already know this
• Don't pay the final balance until the system is fully operational
• Do a deep dive into the company. Not just reviews but check the company on Companies House and The Gazette Official Public Records site.

For S75 you only need to pay 1p...

Thanks for clarifying I did not know that.