Property purchase. Potential Chimney Issues

Flibbertigibbet4545

Doozergirl said:

The cost of rectifying it and supporting it correctly wouldn't be much in the grand scheme of buying a house.  

It wouldn't stop me buying a house that was otherwise acceptable.  Virtually all houses hold some kind of surprise, some are more obvious than others.  

If you have a construction family, they should be fairly relaxed about the realities of homeownership and the concept of fixing things.  

Just negotiate it off the price of the house.  

We've owned a home before and know there is always stuff to be done but we're potentially talking about major structural work here! If it were a new bathroom or a roof repair then fair enough, but honestly not sure I want to deal with putting in structural supports or smashing down existing chimney beasts (we do also like having them!)

Thanks for the advice, everyone. 

stuart45

If you like chimney breasts get your husband to rebuild the one that's been removed. I had to do one years ago on a council house that was being refurbished, where the tenant had knocked out the one in the lounge.

Noneforit999

stuart45 said:

If it was done in the 70's, there's a fair chance it won't be supported. Up to the mid 60's it would be unusual to remove a chimney breast. In the 70's it became really popular,  and there wasn't really any guidance to the work as it was a new idea. Most of the older bricklayers I worked with said that the tying in to the party walls was enough to hold them up. Even the better firms I worked for got me to corbel the brickwork below as a decorative feature. It was probably in the 80's when Building Control realised the problem and brought in regs.

Agree with this, if it were done in the 70's and you can't visibly see a boxed in RSJ then I would bet its not supported by modern methods. .

You may find its tied into the party wall and the other side has theirs full in tact so the support is 'adequate', especially if its been there 50 years with no issues. If the other side decides to remove theirs though it likely won't be adequately supported so may be worth speaking to them. 

The ceiling crack could just be the plaster skim, that is fairly common for hairline cracks but as said, the only way to be sure is to pull back the carpet above, prise up the floorboards and check. If it shows its resting on timber or similar, you can either leave it or get an RSJ put in.

I don't see how this is a deal breaker, especially if your husband works in building works. Its easily remedied with an RSJ and a bit of mess and surely he can fit it or at least knows someone who can for beer money?

dannim12345

This sounds like my old house, unsupported chimney done in the past but no obvious issues but when we did work and took up the floor and it was just on the floor joists….  

It was too expensive to resolve and you could rebuild or take up to loft level but it depends if you want to do some work and can get some money off. It wouldn’t make me pull out if I really liked the house 

Section62

Noneforit999 said:

stuart45 said:

If it was done in the 70's, there's a fair chance it won't be supported. Up to the mid 60's it would be unusual to remove a chimney breast. In the 70's it became really popular,  and there wasn't really any guidance to the work as it was a new idea. Most of the older bricklayers I worked with said that the tying in to the party walls was enough to hold them up. Even the better firms I worked for got me to corbel the brickwork below as a decorative feature. It was probably in the 80's when Building Control realised the problem and brought in regs.

....If it shows its resting on timber or similar, you can either leave it or get an RSJ put in.

I'd get a structural engineer's opinion if the chimney is supported on timber.

Noneforit999 said:

I don't see how this is a deal breaker, especially if your husband works in building works. Its easily remedied with an RSJ and a bit of mess and surely he can fit it or at least knows someone who can for beer money?

I agree it shouldn't necessaily be a dealbreaker, but resolving an unsupported chimney at first floor level will cost far more than just beer money.

OP would need to engage a structural engineer and will need building regs approval.  I'd allow £2000 in total for that.  They may also need a party wall agreement, so I'd allow a provisional £1000.

Depending on the size and position of the chimney breast they'll need a steel beam of maybe 4m length, plus possibly some smaller steelwork to achieve lateral stability.  Depending on the run of the joists these may need cutting back and trimming.  The beam itself needs adequate support which means cutting into the walls and installing padstones.  Realistically, the room the remaining chimney breast is in (plus the one below) will be out of action for the duration of the work, which will be messy and disruptive.  It may be cheaper/less disruptive to remove the first floor chimney breast and support the remainder in the loft.

For the purpose of negotiating with the vendor I'd allow up to £20k for the job, but open negotiation at £30k.  I wouldn't commit to that figure before a structural engineer had been able to inspect and report and give a ball-park confirmation that there was a feasible solution for the budget.

And that's the potential dealbreaker... will the vendor allow an intrusive inspection on the basis of a hunch the chimney might not be supported? And would they be willing to take a £20k hit on the property value when they've been living with this chimney without problem for 'x' years... and everyone knows that if it hasn't fallen down after 50 years then it is perfectly safe. (it isn't, for the avoidance of confusion).

FreeBear

Section62 said: ... and everyone knows that if it hasn't fallen down after 50 years then it is perfectly safe. (it isn't, for the avoidance of confusion).

As the scandal with RAAC demonstrates, just because something has been standing for xx years and isn't showing any signs of cracking, it can still collapse without warning. OK, bricks & mortar don't have the same vulnerabilities of RAAC, but do you really want to take the chance with several tons of brickwork towering above your head - I'd certainly want a professional opinion and budget for work being done.