PCM, high point village

Peter767

some information from the driver (based abroad)
The person being picked up and children had used the Elizabeth line few minutes ago and thought they were on railway land when the sickness emergency happened , the driver was intending to stay in the flats opposite and wanted to make accommodation enquiries but left as child unwell, there is proof of Elizabeth line use and car permit from nearby. The driver denies they were on private land and always thought this was a railway premises, there were no obvious parking signs suggesting private land and the car was always on during this entire period 

Also apparently Paragraph 9(2) (e) of section 4 of the Act requires Claimant(PCM) to indicate within its NTK an invitation to the keeper to "pass the notice onto the drive"
The NTK does not contain this information.
someone has recently won a case against this operator on this point.

Coupon-mad

Railway premises is private land.

Peter767

found out the owners are Ballymore group, are they related to PCM and shall we use this email  info@ballymoregroup.com to complain? What shall we mention?
Thanks

B789

I seriously doubt that Ballymore Group are "related" in any shape or form to PCM. PCM are their agents and it should be within Ballymore Group's contract that they can order their agent to cancel the PCN.

You should try the email you have for Ballymore Group to complain as the RK about the PCN and their agents aggressive issuance of it, considering that there was also a mitigating circumstance. You could highlight that their agent are not complying with their ATAs CoP because of the lack of entrance signage, poor signage within the location and the fact that they can't hold the RK liable as the land is covered by railway byelaws and so PoFA does not apply.

Should this proceed to a court claim, Ballymore Group should know that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents and so may wish to refer your complaint to their legal advisors as they may be called as witnesses. Of course, the easiest thing would be for them to make this PCn go away as it was issued unfairly.

Peter767

I was going through Gooston's thread from 2017, thought would paste here, although he hasn't been active since, Coupon-Mad still is! don't know what eventually happened to his appeal process as he had done so much hard work.

PCM Parking Charge at Hayes and Harlington Station - Page 10 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

AmikoFrizz982

Peter767 said:

found out the owners are Ballymore group, are they related to PCM and shall we use this email  info@ballymoregroup.com to complain? What shall we mention?
Thanks

These entities are not directly and officially related. However, PCM UK, Parking Control Management UK Ltd, is well known for teaming with land and estate management agents (i.e. Firstport) and harassing motorists and even residents most of the time for no reason. 

You should robustly complain to the freeholder and the land management agent. Sometimes writing to the agents only is not enough. I doubt very much that the landlord authority is in order, on the contract with PCM.

Your appeal to PCM might be rejected, but if you make a lot of noise and show them you have a case, they might confirm they "will no longer be pursuing the matter and the parking charge has been cancelled" at IAS appeal stage. That happened to me and I was not expecting that, knowing the reputation of IAC&IAS.

I don't know if you have received already a NTK, if this is the case a SAR to DVLA can be sent to check if PCM collected keeper data at the right time and not too soon. The signage is acceptable? The terms and conditions have been well explained? Any breaches of PoFA 2012 or IAC parking Code of Practice?

All in all, my opinion is that you have a strong case and this charge will be discontinued if you build up a big thing complaining about this to everyone.

sad_woman

AmikoFrizz982 said:

Peter767 said:

found out the owners are Ballymore group, are they related to PCM and shall we use this email  info@ballymoregroup.com to complain? What shall we mention?
Thanks

These entities are not directly and officially related. However, PCM UK, Parking Control Management UK Ltd, is well known for teaming with land and estate management agents (i.e. Firstport) and harassing motorists and even residents most of the time for no reason. 

You should robustly complain to the freeholder and the land management agent. Sometimes writing to the agents only is not enough. I doubt very much that the landlord authority is in order, on the contract with PCM.

Your appeal to PCM might be rejected, but if you make a lot of noise and show them you have a case, they might confirm they "will no longer be pursuing the matter and the parking charge has been cancelled" at IAS appeal stage. That happened to me and I was not expecting that, knowing the reputation of IAC&IAS.

I don't know if you have received already a NTK, if this is the case a SAR to DVLA can be sent to check if PCM collected keeper data at the right time and not too soon. The signage is acceptable? The terms and conditions have been well explained? Any breaches of PoFA 2012 or IAC parking Code of Practice?

All in all, my opinion is that you have a strong case and this charge will be discontinued if you build up a big thing complaining about this to everyone.

Hello, my husband has a NTK from this exact location in the last week.. He stopped for approximately 20 seconds, never theft the car or turned the engine off and drove off. He said he didn't see the signs. He has stopped there before and actually waited in a disabled bay late one night to collect people from the station but that was some months ago.. However the images now show clear signage, at car door level to the effect this is controlled land.. see below

Am I right to understand that because PCM & IAS have been shown to be a scam we should NOT appeal to PCM or IAS but directly to the land owner?

If so can someone tell me who the actual land owner is?
I am confused between the:
TFL bylaw information (especially as it isn't really a car park but a few disabled bays at the back entrance of the station and may well be for visitors to the adjacent flats..)
and 
The Ballymore landowner information - presumably ballymore built these? 

Also regarding SAR to DVLA, how do I know what is the correct time for PCM to have requested data from DVLA ? Is it in NEWBIES somewhere?

Many thanks

Coupon-mad

Yes the NEWBIES thread answers it all.

sad_woman

Coupon-mad said:

Yes the NEWBIES thread answers it all.

Thank you @Coupon-mad I  will look for SAR - DVLA info
However, if y ou or anyone, perhaps @Peter767, can answer my questions about this particular piece of land ownership. I would be very grateful. I do not understand what was written in the previous posts. Sorry to be slow, here are my questions again:

• Am I right to understand that because PCM & IAS have been shown to be a scam we should NOT appeal to PCM or IAS but directly to the land owner?
• If so can someone tell me who the actual land owner is? 
  I am confused between the:
  TFL bylaw information (especially as it isn't really a car park but a few disabled bays at the back entrance of the station and may well be for visitors to the adjacent flats..)
  and 
  The Ballymore landowner information - presumably ballymore built these? 

Many thanks for any help 

bg_pc_po

Recently stung by this scam too.

Can you use the Land Registry record for Highpoint Village to find the legal owner?

UB3 4FN

shows up as

Highpoint Village
Station Approach
Hayes
UB3 4FN

"Land and buildings on the east side of Station Approach, Hayes"

This bit was all free

thanks