Settlement Agreement / Severance Payment

bigbars

lincroft1710 said:

Then they can withdraw the offer if you do not agree

Like anyone, I Just don't want to be taken advantage of.
I don't want to just take it as its there. most negotiations start off with a low ball offer, as I mention I have no experience or knowledge to know if this is that or a genuine good faith offer. 

As I look at it. The minimum I am entitled to is my 3 months notice which I was happy to work through. So in effect, they are paying me 3 months to go now.

I don't want to leave or didn't want to leave, but if they don't appreciate me and just value me for what I can do, how can I knowingly put myself in that kind of environment. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss and for many years I was unaware of their behaviours until recently.

bigbars

Suzycoll said:

bigbars said:

Update:

The timing I’m sure isn’t coincidental. It’s been 3 weeks since I had my without prejudice meeting, it ended with HR saying it would be a couple of days to get the offer to me. End of last week was sent an invite for for an update meeting, where they confirmed the proposal figures and next steps as they put it. 

Formal Offer doc received 30mins before the end of my shift;

3 months untaxed
3 months notice taxed
outstanding annual leave
contribution towards legal review.
access to assistance services, guess like job seekers type thing 
Gardening leave from tomorrow until the end of the month which amounts to the from what I understand standard 10 days review period of the offer.

have passed this on to my union rep for review, but with no experience of this situation i does that appear to be a fair offer? the value appears more than statutory redundancy but this isn’t redundancy and termed as termination by mutual consent. My initial concern was the wording of the reference which although stating title, length of service could intimate a issue of sorts without saying it.

and just like that… well provisionally… until I sign on the dotted line.. 15 years is over. ..hush hush… say nothing… out the back door you go.

HI. I am unable to comment on the offer I'm afraid.

However, at least it is progress - much better than not knowing what is going on . Well done for that . I know it doesn't feel like it at the moment but this is a new start for you. I'm not sure if you are looking for work but any employer would be glad to have you....and value you more

I'm waiting for HR appointment , although my case is different as I am on sick leave.

Onwards ad upwards. Stay positive. 

I appreciate that. Thank You!!

I'm trying to stay positive, just something about their behaviour is making me think I'm being pushed into it, pushed into taking their offer under threat of getting statutory.

I'll be better once this is over and I can look forward. Thinking I may be more of a better candidate once I'm out of notice period and had a little break.

lincroft1710

bigbars said:

lincroft1710 said:

Then they can withdraw the offer if you do not agree

Like anyone, I Just don't want to be taken advantage of.
I don't want to just take it as its there. most negotiations start off with a low ball offer, as I mention I have no experience or knowledge to know if this is that or a genuine good faith offer. 

As I look at it. The minimum I am entitled to is my 3 months notice which I was happy to work through. So in effect, they are paying me 3 months to go now.

I don't want to leave or didn't want to leave, but if they don't appreciate me and just value me for what I can do, how can I knowingly put myself in that kind of environment. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss and for many years I was unaware of their behaviours until recently.

What aces do you have up your sleeve that would persuade your employer to make a better offer?

bigbars

lincroft1710 said:

bigbars said:

lincroft1710 said:

Then they can withdraw the offer if you do not agree

Like anyone, I Just don't want to be taken advantage of.
I don't want to just take it as its there. most negotiations start off with a low ball offer, as I mention I have no experience or knowledge to know if this is that or a genuine good faith offer. 

As I look at it. The minimum I am entitled to is my 3 months notice which I was happy to work through. So in effect, they are paying me 3 months to go now.

I don't want to leave or didn't want to leave, but if they don't appreciate me and just value me for what I can do, how can I knowingly put myself in that kind of environment. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss and for many years I was unaware of their behaviours until recently.

What aces do you have up your sleeve that would persuade your employer to make a better offer?

Is that how it works, I have to plead why I deserve more after 15 years service ?
HR intimated that I was given a fair offer and I was lucky to get this... like I should be ever so grateful.
Loss of earnings, lifeline
time it will take to achieve a new role
the settlement is detrimental to my skillset as a template reference intimates of a situation, especially with a gap in employment between termination and any future employment.
not withstanding the coercion tactics to pressure my return, falsely claiming poor performance and lack of interaction with colleagues, but not formally taking that further which to me amounts to underhand play to force submission.
Can I blame their treatment of me, behaviour and my enforced isolation caused my condition?

Savvy_Sue

bigbars said:

lincroft1710 said:

What aces do you have up your sleeve that would persuade your employer to make a better offer?

Is that how it works, I have to plead why I deserve more after 15 years service ?
HR intimated that I was given a fair offer and I was lucky to get this... like I should be ever so grateful.
Can I blame their treatment of me, behaviour and my enforced isolation caused my condition?

I wouldn't say you had to plead. You have to demonstrate that it's NOT a fair offer. Lincroft's question is relevant. 

Can you blame their treatment? Wrong question. Can you PROVE their treatment of you caused your condition? Answer: unlikely. 

They are paying for you to take independent legal advice. What they're paying won't cover very much: you'll be told what the offer is, what the implications are. You won't be told you might be able to get a better offer if you did ... X, Y or Z. 

FWIW, 6 months is what DH was offered after a similar period of time. It wasn't a sickness situation, it was more of a 'your face no longer fits' situation. They behaved very badly IMO (I read the first letter they sent and asked "do they WANT you to take them to an Industrial Tribunal? Because that's how this reads!") 

But since leaving was inevitable, it seemed better to us to get out with their offer, and get on with our lives. 

bigbars

Savvy_Sue said:

bigbars said:

lincroft1710 said:

What aces do you have up your sleeve that would persuade your employer to make a better offer?

Is that how it works, I have to plead why I deserve more after 15 years service ?
HR intimated that I was given a fair offer and I was lucky to get this... like I should be ever so grateful.
Can I blame their treatment of me, behaviour and my enforced isolation caused my condition?

I wouldn't say you had to plead. You have to demonstrate that it's NOT a fair offer. Lincroft's question is relevant. 

Can you blame their treatment? Wrong question. Can you PROVE their treatment of you caused your condition? Answer: unlikely. 

They are paying for you to take independent legal advice. What they're paying won't cover very much: you'll be told what the offer is, what the implications are. You won't be told you might be able to get a better offer if you did ... X, Y or Z. 

FWIW, 6 months is what DH was offered after a similar period of time. It wasn't a sickness situation, it was more of a 'your face no longer fits' situation. They behaved very badly IMO (I read the first letter they sent and asked "do they WANT you to take them to an Industrial Tribunal? Because that's how this reads!") 

But since leaving was inevitable, it seemed better to us to get out with their offer, and get on with our lives. 

Thank You, that makes sense. Appreciate your input.

Undervalued

bigbars said:

lincroft1710 said:

bigbars said:

lincroft1710 said:

Then they can withdraw the offer if you do not agree

Like anyone, I Just don't want to be taken advantage of.
I don't want to just take it as its there. most negotiations start off with a low ball offer, as I mention I have no experience or knowledge to know if this is that or a genuine good faith offer. 

As I look at it. The minimum I am entitled to is my 3 months notice which I was happy to work through. So in effect, they are paying me 3 months to go now.

I don't want to leave or didn't want to leave, but if they don't appreciate me and just value me for what I can do, how can I knowingly put myself in that kind of environment. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss and for many years I was unaware of their behaviours until recently.

What aces do you have up your sleeve that would persuade your employer to make a better offer?

Is that how it works, I have to plead why I deserve more after 15 years service ?
HR intimated that I was given a fair offer and I was lucky to get this... like I should be ever so grateful.
Loss of earnings, lifeline
time it will take to achieve a new role
the settlement is detrimental to my skillset as a template reference intimates of a situation, especially with a gap in employment between termination and any future employment.
not withstanding the coercion tactics to pressure my return, falsely claiming poor performance and lack of interaction with colleagues, but not formally taking that further which to me amounts to underhand play to force submission.
Can I blame their treatment of me, behaviour and my enforced isolation caused my condition?

But ultimately, you either agree a settlement or they sack you and you take your chances at a tribunal.

You might win, if so you might get more in compensation that the settlement. Or you might lose and get nothing.

No tribunal can force them to reinstate you, or order them to provide any reference.

A solicitor can advise you of your chances and the likely value of your claim but there are no guarantees. If it goes the distance, win or lose, you will have the better part of a year's stress.

Sorry, but that is the harsh reality.

bigbars

Should I be concerned that with redundancy the expectation is 1 weeks salary for every year of employment which equates to 4 months, and I am being offered 3 ? Or is it a case that medical grounds is not treated in the same fashion, or is it that I basically should just be grateful for this and take what I am being given. Admittedly, getting to this point and the thought of cutting my losses with this firm and everything associated to it is appealing right now, although like I have mentioned, I just don't want to be taken advantage of one final time, but if the flip side, that they could rescind the offer or drag this out for a trial that I may not win, that is a scary and worrying thought/consideration.

Most importantly, I do truly appreciate the words of wisdom, harsh and kind logic, etc in the input and contributions to this post, sometimes a good slap (figuratively speaking) is needed to see different opinions and angles xx

Undervalued

bigbars said:

Should I be concerned that with redundancy the expectation is 1 weeks salary for every year of employment which equates to 4 months, and I am being offered 3 ? Or is it a case that medical grounds is not treated in the same fashion, or is it that I basically should just be grateful for this and take what I am being given. Admittedly, getting to this point and the thought of cutting my losses with this firm and everything associated to it is appealing right now, although like I have mentioned, I just don't want to be taken advantage of one final time, but if the flip side, that they could rescind the offer or drag this out for a trial that I may not win, that is a scary and worrying thought/consideration.

Most importantly, I do truly appreciate the words of wisdom, harsh and kind logic, etc in the input and contributions to this post, sometimes a good slap (figuratively speaking) is needed to see different opinions and angles xx

To repeat, this is not a redundancy situation.

Unlike redundancy, there is no legal entitlement to compensation if you are medically unfit to continue in your job (unless there are any contractual arrangements perhaps built into your pension scheme etc). In such a situation the employer can lawfully dismiss you, providing they follow proper procedure, just by giving you notice (or pay in lieu).

Despite this it is not uncommon to offer some some money in the form of a settlement agreement. This may be partly a gesture of goodwill but it is largely to ensure a clean break and remove the possibility of having to defend a claim for unfair dismissal (whether valid or not). That is what appears to be happening here.

Unless a solicitor, with full details of your situation, feels you have a valid unfair dismissal claim (frankly unlikely based on what you have posted here) there is little you can do.