Settlement Agreement / Severance Payment

bigbars

Undervalued said:

bigbars said:

The only real benefit i can see initially is that I will get a months pay tax free, as the notice period and annual leave is a given. I guess it could be said, that I get gardening leave as they dont expect me to work my notice period. But it seems a kick in the privates to leave after 15 years with just a months pay as a be gone and dont talk about this sweetener.

No sorry.

Any contractual entitlement (such as your notice and holiday pay) is taxable in the normal way. Only additional payments, up to £30K, that are not contractual entitlements (e.g compensation or payments made with out admission of liability) are tax free.

Whilst it is not your fault you are unable to continue for health reasons, it is not your employer's fault either. Unless part of your "package" includes a form of insurance for this sort of situation (sometimes part of pension) there is no entitlement to anything beyond your normal sick pay arrangements for however long that lasts.

Sounds like I should be glad for whatever I get.
Just to me feels incredibly underhand really. Like the need to talk off record, are they fearful of me bringing a case against them.

They profess to be all about employees well being, your mental health, looking after you, doing the best for you, et al. But within their own paradigms. I am able to continue albeit WFH, but they define that I am not doing enough, but it was enough whilst they waited as y levels have not dropped, if anything my non face to face levels have increased as I take on more handsfree actions. I guess as I am not actually off sick, then the sickness benefit probably will not cover this scenario.

So, ultimately they feel they have waited long enough so off you pop it seems.

Dakta

I'd definitely speak to ACAS about this, I don't want to give advice per'se because I'm dealing with something as well and I'm not sure how it's going to pan out. But give they've indicated (iirc anyway) that they're going to go down capability route if you don't take the settlement, I'd be speaking to ACAS, getting hold of the company policieis with regards to capabilities and it might also be worth seeking confirmation as to whether your health would classify as a disability 

Basically arm yourself with info. 

Undervalued

bigbars said:

Undervalued said:

bigbars said:

The only real benefit i can see initially is that I will get a months pay tax free, as the notice period and annual leave is a given. I guess it could be said, that I get gardening leave as they dont expect me to work my notice period. But it seems a kick in the privates to leave after 15 years with just a months pay as a be gone and dont talk about this sweetener.

No sorry.

Any contractual entitlement (such as your notice and holiday pay) is taxable in the normal way. Only additional payments, up to £30K, that are not contractual entitlements (e.g compensation or payments made with out admission of liability) are tax free.

Whilst it is not your fault you are unable to continue for health reasons, it is not your employer's fault either. Unless part of your "package" includes a form of insurance for this sort of situation (sometimes part of pension) there is no entitlement to anything beyond your normal sick pay arrangements for however long that lasts.

Sounds like I should be glad for whatever I get.
Just to me feels incredibly underhand really. Like the need to talk off record, are they fearful of me bringing a case against them.

They profess to be all about employees well being, your mental health, looking after you, doing the best for you, et al. But within their own paradigms. I am able to continue albeit WFH, but they define that I am not doing enough, but it was enough whilst they waited as y levels have not dropped, if anything my non face to face levels have increased as I take on more handsfree actions. I guess as I am not actually off sick, then the sickness benefit probably will not cover this scenario.

So, ultimately they feel they have waited long enough so off you pop it seems.

They may well be. However that is not the same thing as having a viable case! You may have but based on what you have posted here it seems unlikely. Defending a case cost an employer money, time and resources. For that reason many will offer some kind of modest settlement, without prejudice, just to bring the matter to a swift and clean conclusion.

If you want to consider a claim then you need to get some independent legal advice. If you are a member of a union they should provide that. Contrary to what some on here repeatedly suggest, talking to ACAS is not a substitute for legal advice. They can tell you your rights and the guidelines they suggest an employer should follow. However, most statutory procedures have been abolished so simply deviating from those guidelines does not, in itself, mean the employer has acted unlawfully.

bigbars

Undervalued said:

bigbars said:

Undervalued said:

bigbars said:

The only real benefit i can see initially is that I will get a months pay tax free, as the notice period and annual leave is a given. I guess it could be said, that I get gardening leave as they dont expect me to work my notice period. But it seems a kick in the privates to leave after 15 years with just a months pay as a be gone and dont talk about this sweetener.

No sorry.

Any contractual entitlement (such as your notice and holiday pay) is taxable in the normal way. Only additional payments, up to £30K, that are not contractual entitlements (e.g compensation or payments made with out admission of liability) are tax free.

Whilst it is not your fault you are unable to continue for health reasons, it is not your employer's fault either. Unless part of your "package" includes a form of insurance for this sort of situation (sometimes part of pension) there is no entitlement to anything beyond your normal sick pay arrangements for however long that lasts.

Sounds like I should be glad for whatever I get.
Just to me feels incredibly underhand really. Like the need to talk off record, are they fearful of me bringing a case against them.

They profess to be all about employees well being, your mental health, looking after you, doing the best for you, et al. But within their own paradigms. I am able to continue albeit WFH, but they define that I am not doing enough, but it was enough whilst they waited as y levels have not dropped, if anything my non face to face levels have increased as I take on more handsfree actions. I guess as I am not actually off sick, then the sickness benefit probably will not cover this scenario.

So, ultimately they feel they have waited long enough so off you pop it seems.

They may well be. However that is not the same thing as having a viable case! You may have but based on what you have posted here it seems unlikely. Defending a case cost an employer money, time and resources. For that reason many will offer some kind of modest settlement, without prejudice, just to bring the matter to a swift and clean conclusion.

If you want to consider a claim then you need to get some independent legal advice. If you are a member of a union they should provide that. Contrary to what some on here repeatedly suggest, talking to ACAS is not a substitute for legal advice. They can tell you your rights and the guidelines they suggest an employer should follow. However, most statutory procedures have been abolished so simply deviating from those guidelines does not, in itself, mean the employer has acted unlawfully.

Fair enough, thanks for your input.
I’m Waiting for the formal agreement/offer in writing then as advised I’ll pass it on to Unite for legal advice.

Dakta

I think understanding the guidelines (which can affect the award in viable case if it isnt followed) is a sensible first step before spending a lot of money on legal advice.

There is nothing wrong at all with a free conversation about process and rights before committing to a deeper dive, and I do take the stance that being informed and generally aware of the guidelines as someone at the heart of the situation really does give some assist when it comes to deciding what to do, there is never any drawback from being informed, especially when it's effectively free (nothing wrong with union help either, but you can't always count on that being available).  I cant find where it was stated as legal advice or a viable alternative.

Undervalued

Dakta said:

I think understanding the guidelines (which can affect the award in viable case if it isnt followed) is a sensible first step before spending a lot of money on legal advice.

There is nothing wrong at all with a free conversation about process and rights before committing to a deeper dive, and I do take the stance that being informed and generally aware of the guidelines as someone at the heart of the situation really does give some assist when it comes to deciding what to do, there is never any drawback from being informed, especially when it's effectively free (nothing wrong with union help either, but you can't always count on that being available).  I cant find where it was stated as legal advice or a viable alternative.

Not directly.

The law expects the employer to make a reasonable attempt to conduct a fair process. Following the guidelines published by ACAS should be a reasonably reliable way of doing so. However an alternative process could well also be fair and if so it satisfies the legal requirement.

As I said, the days of statutory procedures, which had to be followed almost to the letter, are long gone. In those days a failure to follow the procedures could make a dismissal automatically unfair (regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case) and in some cases attracted automatic penalty awards.

I may well be some years out of date but there certainly was quite a bit of ACAS information that hadn't been updated since the "procedures" days.

Dakta

This does not make ACAS valueless, in fact I found the information from ACAS pretty much on par with my attempts to gain legal advice in my own situation. Which was informative, though not necessarily advice (though to be fair, it was still comparable with a solicitors efforts). I don't think ACAS goes far enough, but that isn't so much to the detriment of ACAS it's always a good port of call if you're having employment issues and I'd always recommend having a chat as a first step. It's free. Going beyond that though IME paid advice might not ultimately give you that much more (though they can obviously help with the motions).

It of course doesn't stop you from going on to take legal advice, but it gives you that bit of information to work from.

I couldn't find anyone stating ACAS was an alternative to legal advice.

Jude57

Dakta said:

I think understanding the guidelines (which can affect the award in viable case if it isnt followed) is a sensible first step before spending a lot of money on legal advice.

There is nothing wrong at all with a free conversation about process and rights before committing to a deeper dive, and I do take the stance that being informed and generally aware of the guidelines as someone at the heart of the situation really does give some assist when it comes to deciding what to do, there is never any drawback from being informed, especially when it's effectively free (nothing wrong with union help either, but you can't always count on that being available).  I cant find where it was stated as legal advice or a viable alternative.

The OP already has legal advice available via their Union who are, unlike ACAS helpline staff, actual employment law experts. I'd strongly advise against seeking legal advice outside the Union because the Union may then decline to advise or represent you any further. It would be unwise to cut off the source of advice, representation and possibly negotiation available to you as a Union member.

Dakta

That's true, but again, and for the third time it hasn't been suggested that this is a replacement for legal advice.

And how can you argue it's seeking legal advice outside the union, when the whole point being picked is that it isn't legal advice?

Have it one way or the other, not both?

Jude57

Dakta said:

That's true, but again, and for the third time it hasn't been suggested that this is a replacement for legal advice.

And how can you argue it's seeking legal advice outside the union, when the whole point being picked is that it isn't legal advice?

Have it one way or the other, not both?

You mentioned spending a lot of money on legal advice. That was the point I was cautioning the OP (and other readers of this thread) about. If your Union are supporting and representing you, you don't need to spend anything on legal advice outside that support.

As to seeking advice from ACAS, my concern there is that those dealing with first line enquiries are unqualified to offer meaningful advice when they are required to use a script for every call. It's vanishingly unlikely that ACAS would take on, as an organisation, the case of one individual, unless there are issues of potential impact on wider employment relations which, with respect, the OP's situation doesn't seem, based on the scant information provided, to do.

I maintain my contention that for expert advice, ACAS are ill equipped at the first line contact level to add anything useful. Surely workplace Union representatives have first-hand knowledge of the employer in the case, which ACAS do not have. Regional full-time Union officers have speedy access to a huge range of expert advice with which to support individual members which, again, ACAS front line staff do not have. And finally, for emphasis, the Union will, if they support the case, provide expert legal advice and representation at all levels at no cost to the member which ACAS cannot do. 

I have the greatest respect for ACAS and for the work they do but in the case of an individual who needs tailored support and legal advice, the Union is far better placed to assist and I don't see how getting pro forma input from an organisation with neither the expertise nor infrastructure to provide meaningful support to that individual does anything but muddy the waters. 

For clarity, I'm not suggesting you are unaware of any of this, but others reading this thread may be.