Grant for heat pump to replace home with storage heaters

matt_drummer

Swipe said:

I installed two air to air heat pumps at my previous property without planning permission and no one batted an eyelid and they were there for 10 years.

As do many people.

That doesn't mean that their installation fell under permitted development and didn't fall foul of the planning laws..

For a start, only one heat pump is allowed under permitted development.

I am not saying that most people don't install them without planning permission. My point is that planning permission is required to be legal.

This is more important if heat pumps are installed under MCS rules and a grant towards the installation is desired.

I am aware that there are no grants available for air to air heat pumps but that doesn't change planning laws.

QrizB

ArbitraryRandom said:

How can you prove that (given I believe most units come with the functionality)? 

and

matt_drummer said:

Do you think I made it up?

I read the question as being "how do you prove that your ASHP doesn't cool?".

I think most of the ones installed in the UK have cooling disabled in software or via settings on the controller board.

Gerry1 said:

Loads of fun if you use a wet radiator heat pump system for cooling...

OTOH I think someone on the Energy forum - possibly @Mstty - managed to re-enable cooling and had a chilled floor slab earlier in the summer, thanks to their underfloor "heating".

matt_drummer

ArbitraryRandom said:

Gerry1 said:

Loads of fun if you use a wet radiator heat pump system for cooling...

The post I was quoting was specifically talking about proving an air to air wasn't used for cooling so I'm not sure where you got the idea I was talking about a wet system...? 

That isn't true actually because if you read the planning laws carefully they are talking about air source heat pumps used for cooling so that would include air to water heat pumps as well.

Any air source heat pump used for cooling officially requires planning permission.

@Gerry1 was correct.

ArbitraryRandom

matt_drummer said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

Gerry1 said:

Loads of fun if you use a wet radiator heat pump system for cooling...

The post I was quoting was specifically talking about proving an air to air wasn't used for cooling so I'm not sure where you got the idea I was talking about a wet system...? 

That isn't true actually because if you read the planning laws carefully they are talking about air source heat pumps used for cooling so that would include air to water heat pumps as well.

Any air source heat pump used for cooling officially requires planning permission.

@Gerry1 was correct.

Gerry was actually incorrect (as were you) in assuming I was talking about a wet system or querying your interpretation of the planning laws. 

The post I quoted (from you) said: 

The rules are badly worded and I would think that if you could prove that your air to air heat pump was not used for cooling then it would be ok.

Which is why I asked how could you prove that. 

To me that seems to be the logical question someone would ask given the context - but if you were unsure then perhaps asking for clarification rather than assuming someone was challenging your point would be a more friendly approach to take next time? 

As it happens, a poster has given an informative response (that units can have that function disabled), which would be something you could demonstrate if needed. 

Thank you Qrizb for your helpful response - I now have something I can ask about when looking at heat pump models.

matt_drummer

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

Loads of fun if you use a wet radiator heat pump system for cooling...

OTOH I think someone on the Energy forum - possibly @Mstty - managed to re-enable cooling and had a chilled floor slab earlier in the summer, thanks to their underfloor "heating".

I am sure that @QrizB is talking about air to water heat pumps here.

Most air to air heat pumps are installed primarily for cooling according to my installer.

Nobody has air to air installed for heating only that he knows of.

The controls on an air to air heat pump are completely different to those on an air to water heat pump, they are more of a stand alone system rather than part of the home like a central heating system, they are more of an appliance controlled by a remote control similar to a television really.

Swipe

matt_drummer said:

QrizB said:

Gerry1 said:

Loads of fun if you use a wet radiator heat pump system for cooling...

OTOH I think someone on the Energy forum - possibly @Mstty - managed to re-enable cooling and had a chilled floor slab earlier in the summer, thanks to their underfloor "heating".

Most air to air heat pumps are installed primarily for cooling according to my installer.

Nobody has air to air installed for heating only that he knows of.

I did. In the 10 years I had them, I didn't use them for cooling once as I lived in a bungalow and it rarely stayed above 23C when it was time for bed.

markin

Are all bedrooms used for sleeping? Im not really sure you need 10, One in the Master bedroom and the rest can be heated by a large one in the corridor.

You wouldn't really need them in bathrooms either, So one in the living room and one in the kitchen, it all depends on the layout  and what doors can be left open so the warm air circulates.

Being 90's build i presume its not totally useless at keeping the heat in, have you had a winter in this house yet?

Spoonie_Turtle

markin said:

Are all bedrooms used for sleeping? Im not really sure you need 10, One in the Master bedroom and the rest can be heated by a large one in the corridor.

You wouldn't really need them in bathrooms either, So one in the living room and one in the kitchen, it all depends on the layout  and what doors can be left open so the warm air circulates.

Some people might be fine with that but future-proofing would have heaters in the bedrooms and bathrooms.  If OP intended to stay there for the long term, probably won't enjoy a cold bathroom when they get older.  Or if they / a family member gets chronically ill and can't tolerate the cold - which is also a big reason the bedrooms should have radiators, in case people end up needing to spend daytimes in there.

Or if they plan to sell after a while, not having rads in the bathroom/s and some of the bedrooms will affect desirability for buyers.

You can set any you don't need to the lowest so they're effectively off.  But would be more expensive to have to put in extra later on if/when they're needed.

MultiFuelBurner

QrizB said:

ArbitraryRandom said:

How can you prove that (given I believe most units come with the functionality)? 

and

matt_drummer said:

Do you think I made it up?

I read the question as being "how do you prove that your ASHP doesn't cool?".

I think most of the ones installed in the UK have cooling disabled in software or via settings on the controller board.

Gerry1 said:

Loads of fun if you use a wet radiator heat pump system for cooling...

OTOH I think someone on the Energy forum - possibly @Mstty - managed to re-enable cooling and had a chilled floor slab earlier in the summer, thanks to their underfloor "heating".

Sadly we have lost @mstty due to their pursuit of crashy trolls and then challenging a forumteam warning.

They are reachable on the Eon Next forum under the same username should anyone need specific heat pump help

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6435239/interpretation-of-site-rules-moderation-and-safeguarding/p6

markin

Spoonie_Turtle said:

markin said:

Are all bedrooms used for sleeping? Im not really sure you need 10, One in the Master bedroom and the rest can be heated by a large one in the corridor.

You wouldn't really need them in bathrooms either, So one in the living room and one in the kitchen, it all depends on the layout  and what doors can be left open so the warm air circulates.

Some people might be fine with that but future-proofing would have heaters in the bedrooms and bathrooms.  If OP intended to stay there for the long term, probably won't enjoy a cold bathroom when they get older.  Or if they / a family member gets chronically ill and can't tolerate the cold - which is also a big reason the bedrooms should have radiators, in case people end up needing to spend daytimes in there.

Or if they plan to sell after a while, not having rads in the bathroom/s and some of the bedrooms will affect desirability for buyers.

You can set any you don't need to the lowest so they're effectively off.  But would be more expensive to have to put in extra later on if/when they're needed.

I don't think any room would be cold, just 2-3c cooler, and by that i mean set it 23c and the bedrooms would be 20-21c, And electric towel rads in the bathrooms would provide a small boost if needed, Also all the nsh could remain in place as a back up/fall back if needed.