Are online clothes with 'if seal is broken, can't be returned' correct?

Jelli

Hello,

I'm dealing with a small retailer that are fairly nice, but noticed with their vests, pants etc they have a notice of 'can't be returned if opened/used'. I know it's different with high street goods, but am I right in thinking anything bought online regardless of being jumpers or underwear, can be returned within 14 days?

They ship such things in cardboard boxes with a seal that says it can't be returned if seal is broken, and the website says it's because of hygiene reasons. I get the hygiene reason, but is that accepted by the law itself when buying online?

RefluentBeans

So it's right that you have 14 days to cancel the order when it arrives for you to inspect the item (something you cant do just via a website), you only have the same rights as if you were in the shop - i.e. shops probably won't let you try on underwear in the shop (generally, appreciate there may be a few niche exceptions...) 

So you can handle the goods as necessary to ascertain that they are functional and as described. If the box is sealed with a break it and its nonreturnable, then I think that's probably wrong (as if you were in a shop you may either ask to look at the product or have an example of the garment to determine its material etc). However, if actually on the garment (like across pants) then I think that's probably fair that if you removed it, there is no returning them. 

Jelli

I'm wondering about this because I'm not sure how it's possible to know if they will fit. I've tried a vest and found with one brand 'S' was needed, with another 'L' was needed, with another it was 'XL'. 3 vastly different letter sizes for a small, thin person.

If it's not possible to return such things because of hygiene reasons (I kind of get the reason), it's like a roulette table. Get the wrong size and money is wasted

RefluentBeans

Personally, I wouldn't consider a vest in the same category as pants, althought they both technically are considered to be underwear. 

If the site has measurments, you could measure yourself and get the size that should fit, and if it doesn't argue the product is faulty as not as described. 

I agree, buying underwear online is generally a spin of the wheel - cheap stuff feels horrible but means if it's the wrong size you don't lose a lot of money, and more expensive stuff risks not being able to get a refund! I think the going through and measuring yourself and using the size chart (or asking for advice on a customer service email if one isn't available) would allow you to return as not as described. 

The 14-day 'rule' for online purchases is under the consumer contracts regs, whilst the 'as described' applies to all purchases and is from the consumer rights act, so doesn't require the product to be resellable per se, so can try it on. 

Hope that helps!

Jelli

I appreciate that info, thanks.

PHK

Jelli said:

I'm wondering about this because I'm not sure how it's possible to know if they will fit. I've tried a vest and found with one brand 'S' was needed, with another 'L' was needed, with another it was 'XL'. 3 vastly different letter sizes for a small, thin person.

If it's not possible to return such things because of hygiene reasons (I kind of get the reason), it's like a roulette table. Get the wrong size and money is wasted

This used to annoy me twenty years ago when I worked in retail. It comes down to the difference between size and fit.

As a crude example, if the garment is designed to be a tight fit/figure hugging/supportive/compression fit etc then you will need a bigger size if you don't like a close fitting garment.

It's here that shopping online has an advantage because you can see the intended fit on the models. If you don't liket wear things fitted like that then don't buy it.

The exception to this rule is imported tat sold cheaply on wish etc or expensively on influencer sites. They'll be much smaller than UK sizes. If they don't give a conversion to UK sizes then avoid.

DullGreyGuy

RefluentBeans said:

So it's right that you have 14 days to cancel the order when it arrives for you to inspect the item (something you cant do just via a website), you only have the same rights as if you were in the shop - i.e. shops probably won't let you try on underwear in the shop (generally, appreciate there may be a few niche exceptions...) 

So you can handle the goods as necessary to ascertain that they are functional and as described. If the box is sealed with a break it and its nonreturnable, then I think that's probably wrong (as if you were in a shop you may either ask to look at the product or have an example of the garment to determine its material etc). However, if actually on the garment (like across pants) then I think that's probably fair that if you removed it, there is no returning them. 

Guess you forgot about:

28.(3) The rights conferred by this Part cease to be available in the following circumstances—

(a) in the case of a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery;

The simplistic way of thinking about it @refluentbeans is that it's the same as you can do in a shop but the law is actually more explicit than this. You may well unseal a box in a shop and inspect the items but it doesn't automatically follow that you can do so on a home delivery. Clearly its easier for a retailer to stop you trying on knickers in the store whereas they have no idea what you've done with them if you've unsealed the box on a home delivery.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Worth noting the "excessive" handling does not allow the trader to deny the right of cancellation but instead allows a deduction. Unsealing a bit of tape on a bog standard box with a jumper in it doesn't warrant much of a deduction, if any, assuming a deduction is possible to begin with.

Perhaps a deduction may be higher in the case of a branded item, say Hugo Boss, sent out in a fancy branded box from the brand themselves.

The exact limit of application (exclusion to the right to cancel) is 

in the case of a contract for the supply of sealed goods which are not suitable for return due to health protection or hygiene reasons, if they become unsealed after delivery;

Guidance suggests this applies to examples of

Cosmetic products such as lipsticks; Toothbrushes, shavers and similar personal hygiene items.

and notes

Accordingly, the exception to the right of withdrawal under point (e) of the first paragraph of Article 16 applies only if, after the packaging has been unsealed, the goods contained therein are definitively no longer in a saleable condition due to genuine health protection or hygiene reasons, because the very nature of the goods makes it impossible or excessively difficult, for the trader to take the necessary measures allowing for resale without affecting either of those requirements

This extends from the mattress case where it was determined items which can be restored to saleable condition are not covered by the exemption, that would include the usual piercings and underwear that most retailers try to exclude, and instead are covered by the deduction. 

The question instead is how much of a deduction is permissible, on some thing like underwear possibly 100%, on a jumper probably 0%. 

The important point to note (that is often forgotten on here) is that the trader must comply with the regulations in their provided information in order to impose a deduction, they should not attempt to deny the consumer their right of cancellation but rather comply and then impose the appropriate amount depending upon the extent of the handling. 

Grumpy_chap

Jelli said:

Hello,

I'm dealing with a small retailer that are fairly nice, but noticed with their vests, pants etc they have a notice of 'can't be returned if opened/used'. I know it's different with high street goods, but am I right in thinking anything bought online regardless of being jumpers or underwear, can be returned within 14 days?

They ship such things in cardboard boxes with a seal that says it can't be returned if seal is broken, and the website says it's because of hygiene reasons. I get the hygiene reason, but is that accepted by the law itself when buying online?

Usually, for a mail order purchase, there is a right to return for any or no reason within 14 days. 
This is under CCR.
There is an exception if there are hygiene reasons, which applies for underwear (pants) and swimming costumes.  Ear rings are another example where the hygiene reasons exception would apply.
Vests are underwear but maybe the hygiene reasons does not apply in quite the same way - it is a grey area.  How different is a vest (underwear) to a shirt that would also lie on the skin if worn without a vest - not everyone wears vests.

The following article provides a useful overview in simple terms:
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk
Note the exemptions include "goods with a seal for health protection and hygiene reasons that's been broken"

sheramber

Is this a UK  business?

Jelli

yes it is, sheramber