Freeholder problems - leaseholder proposals to an extension that will increase value of the flat

ThisIsWeird

Hi Feebs.

There must be something special about this flat! Have you been given ballpark figures for this work - assuming you'll be allowed to do it?

Anyhoo, following on from the suggested gently-persuasive approach to the FH - the Council - above, it strikes me as tho' there could be some benefits to them by allowing this work, as well as to you, and perhaps this could be emphasised as part of the 'persuasion'?;

If there is asbestos in the flat, then it will surely be music to their ears that you will be guaranteeing to remove this in the correct manner as part of the work? I'd imagine quite a big 'plus' for a FH.

Do you know if your flat is likely to be reassessed for its CT band as a result? If it's likely that it will be, then pre-empt this by pointing out it will likely gain the Council a £ew £undred extra income each and every year. 

If this coal bunker really serves very little other purpose, and the occupants of the upper flat don't have proper (or zero, if they'd have to cross your land?) access to it in any case, then your plan - emphasising how it would permit much easier and safer access to maintain the drainage, again of direct benefit to the FH, could be pointed out? On this point in particular - and since it appears to be the single biggest fly in their decision - it might be worth contacting a local councillor, ideally one on the Planning Committee, and asking them to visit you. Show them the currently awkward access, and explain your plans. If they recognise that there's only benefits and no obvious 'con', then that could help.

Section62

ThisIsWeird said:

If this coal bunker really serves very little other purpose, and the occupants of the upper flat don't have proper (or zero, if they'd have to cross your land?) access to it in any case, then your plan - emphasising how it would permit much easier and safer access to maintain the drainage, again of direct benefit to the FH, could be pointed out? On this point in particular - and since it appears to be the single biggest fly in their decision - it might be worth contacting a local councillor, ideally one on the Planning Committee, and asking them to visit you. Show them the currently awkward access, and explain your plans. If they recognise that there's only benefits and no obvious 'con', then that could help.

Not a good idea to attempt to lobby Planning Committee members - they cannot get involved in planning decisions they have a personal interest in, which would potentially include cases where they may be seen to be acting on behalf of a business or resident.

Planning and property disposal are two of the areas councillors have to be particularly careful not to get involved in where there may be any perception of impropriety.

Wind the clock on a few months and think how the councillor would answer the standards committee question "Councillor 'X', did you lobby officers to approve this resident's planning application and put pressure on officers to vary the lease to include additional items at no extra cost to the resident?" Doesn't look good however innocent it may have been.

Councillor involvement should really be limited to situations where decisions are merely delayed or timely responses not given - and only in the sense of encouraging prompt responses in accordance with the council's standards.  And better for this to be done by any councillor not involved in related committees (e.g. planning, resources, audit etc).

Getting councillors involved may work to the OP's disadvantage, as officers will then be aware whatever they do may well be subject to additional scrutiny - in fact it could give them the excuse they may want to simply respond to the OP with a straightforward "No".

(reading between the lines, giving the upstairs neighbours additional amenity space as part of this 'project' might be the officer's way of demonstrating wider interest/value than just giving a benefit to the OP)

ThisIsWeird

Section62 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

If this coal bunker really serves very little other purpose, and the occupants of the upper flat don't have proper (or zero, if they'd have to cross your land?) access to it in any case, then your plan - emphasising how it would permit much easier and safer access to maintain the drainage, again of direct benefit to the FH, could be pointed out? On this point in particular - and since it appears to be the single biggest fly in their decision - it might be worth contacting a local councillor, ideally one on the Planning Committee, and asking them to visit you. Show them the currently awkward access, and explain your plans. If they recognise that there's only benefits and no obvious 'con', then that could help.

Not a good idea to attempt to lobby Planning Committee members - they cannot get involved in planning decisions they have a personal interest in, which would potentially include cases where they may be seen to be acting on behalf of a business or resident.

Planning and property disposal are two of the areas councillors have to be particularly careful not to get involved in where there may be any perception of impropriety.

Wind the clock on a few months and think how the councillor would answer the standards committee question "Councillor 'X', did you lobby officers to approve this resident's planning application and put pressure on officers to vary the lease to include additional items at no extra cost to the resident?" Doesn't look good however innocent it may have been.

Councillor involvement should really be limited to situations where decisions are merely delayed or timely responses not given - and only in the sense of encouraging prompt responses in accordance with the council's standards.  And better for this to be done by any councillor not involved in related committees (e.g. planning, resources, audit etc).

Getting councillors involved may work to the OP's disadvantage, as officers will then be aware whatever they do may well be subject to additional scrutiny - in fact it could give them the excuse they may want to simply respond to the OP with a straightforward "No".

(reading between the lines, giving the upstairs neighbours additional amenity space as part of this 'project' might be the officer's way of demonstrating wider interest/value than just giving a benefit to the OP)

'delayed and timely responses not given'? Isn't that part of the issue here? So that hardly makes it 'lobbying', but a legitimate request to discuss the matter with an impartial councilor, to make them more informed of what is going on.
I am not going to claim that this is ok, as I do not know, but surely the councilor's answer would be a simple, "Sorry - it isn't appropriate " if that were the case?
Going by my only personal experience, where t'in-laws were looking at a house with a tentative Aggi tie, the local councilor (part of the PC) was not only happy to meet up and talk about it, but was hugely helpful as he could see that the 'tie' had long past been rendered pointless. He was supportive and encouraging for the sole reason that he could see it was the 'right' decision. The proffered bribe had zero influence.
But, if you reckon it's a bad move, you have more direct info, so fair do's.

eddddy

ThisIsWeird said:

'delayed and timely responses not given'? 

Just for balance - I wonder if it's fair to blame the council for things not moving forward.

The OP seems extremely muddled and confused about leases, how to negotiate a purchase, etc. I can imagine the council getting very frustrated by all the muddled thinking.

It's not the council's job to give the OP legal advice about their lease, or advise the OP on how to negotiate a purchase.


I think my advice to the OP would be to hire an architect (or similar) to do all the dealing with the council - and the OP take a very big step back, and leave the architect to it.

And keep the architect on to manage the entire project. If the OP is struggling to deal with the council with this relatively easy stuff, I think dealing with planners, builders etc will be a major challenge.

ThisIsWeird

eddddy said:

ThisIsWeird said:

'delayed and timely responses not given'? 

Just for balance - I wonder if it's fair to blame the council for things not moving forward.

The OP seems extremely muddled and confused about leases, how to negotiating a purchase, etc. I can imagine the council getting very frustrated by all the muddled thinking.

It's not the council's job to give the OP legal advice about their lease, or advise the OP on how to negotiate a purchase.


I think my advice to the OP would be to hire an architect (or similar) to do all the dealing with the council - and the OP take a very big step back, and leave the architect to it.

And keep the architect on to manage the entire project. If the OP is struggling to deal with the council with this relatively easy stuff, I think dealing with planners, builders etc will be a major challenge.

To clarify, I wasn't - and am not - blaming the council for the delay, but just wondered if Feebs could encourage the situation along by emphasising positives - for the FH.

But, no idea if it would be helpful.

Feebs77

Hi,

The issue isn't the planning department.
My understanding is that anyone can do a planning application int anything, regardless if they own it or not! Also I rather forget the coal store if I have to try to create amenity space for upstairs flat. 

The issue is, that I don't know the best way to get the FH council to agree to let me have the closed up  coal store that nobody using, and would be of benefit as direct access to maintain my front garden.

I spoke to a surveyor who said I should state the market uplift value compared to costs to make the coal store useable. And make it clear it's inaccessible and useless to anyone else.

The surveyor also suggested I offer a nominal sum.

But I think offering a nominal sum means that I am suggesting it is of some value and I'm contradicting myself.

The surveyor said  FH council may ask me to provide a valuation, to prove what I say about uplift value. He also said FH council won't want to get their own surveyor to value it as it's too difficult with no precendents.

The surveyor would charge me £1k to do this.

So the above is what I'm thinking of doing.

But I am just worried about offering any sum to the council, as I rather not pay anything if what the surveyor says is true, and he's going to cost £1k.

user1977

I don't follow your concern about offering a nominal sum. Obviously it's worth something - to you, even if it currently is of no obvious interest to anybody else.