Queen Elizabeth drop off - Wise parking PCN

fighting_injustice

I have browsed the forum and was not able to find a similar situation.

It is quite a unique situation so i will try keep it as brief as possible.

I received a fine on the 10th August 2023 stating that I have breached the parking terms and conditions in the privately operated parking area at: Queen Elizabeth Hospital - drop-off area, London SE18 4QH.

The alleged contravention took place on the 30th July.


I entered Queen Elizabeth Hospital main entrance to the drop-off area at 18:51 and dropped my wife and daughter. I then left the drop off area and the hospital approximately 18:52 - 18:59 (which was straight after dropping my wife and daughter) to pick up some food for my father in law at a local takeaway. A footage should show me leaving the hospital during this time. However, this was not acknowledged on the letter I received, which was within the 10 minutes policy of staying in the drop-off area.

After collecting the food, I then came back through the main entrance, passing the drop-off area to park in location 59609 at 19:39, and have proof of payment on my bank statement, which is attached. I provided this proof of payment to which was completely ignored in the response to the appeal. There is also footage of my vehicle entering the hospital between 19:37-19:39, passing the drop off area, and going into the car park, which was also not acknowledged on the letter.

I made an appeal to explain what had happened and was rejected as it stated I only entered at 18:51 and exited at 19.39 and completely disregarded the fact that I had exited and came back to the hospital in between this time.

They were not able to provide evidence of me parking or stationary at the drop-off area for this period of time. The pictures they provided (attached) only show me whilst I am driving through the drop-off area and do not show me stationary in the drop-off area for long enough that it breaches the T&Cs. It is absolutely ridiculous that I am being penalised for actually complying and now having to go through the effort and stress and proving my innocence by writing these emails.

I have appealed showing the evidence that I paid for parking and that if they check the footage at the times I stated, they should see the exit and re-entrance to which they say there is no record.

I have been in contact with the PALs however they are just acting as the messenger and passing messages between the PPC and I so not really helpful. I have also contacted the local PM regarding this and was told they are happy to help.

Unfortunately, I paid with cash at the local chicken shop so they did not provide a receipt.

In the appeal they state that since they only have a record of the vehicle entering and then leaving 48 minutes later, it can be 'assumed' that the vehicle was in the drop off in this time however in reality I actually left and came back with the food, parked in the car park and paid for parking.

Currently in the process of contacting the security team to see if they will have any footage that will prove my innocence but aside from that I am not sure what else.

They currently have no proof that i parked/stationary in the drop off area, just entering and exiting at two different times.

If this goes to court do I have a chance?

Iam a new member so cannot post pictures yet so happy to provide more info that might be able to help get an opinion.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

KeithP

This hospital crops up frequently here.
Surprised you couldn't find anything suitable.

You need to remind PALS and the higher management at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Woolwich about their responsibilities.

In the document -
NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts -
you will see...

Coupon-mad

Of course you'd win in court.

Does the food shop have CCTV?

Ask your MP to CALL THIS OUT AS A DOUBLE DIP, specifically quoting the DLUHC's new incoming statutory Code of Practice on 'double dips' in a robust complaint on your behalf to:

- the CEO of the NHS Trust, by name;

- the DVLA for releasing data automatically and without reasonable cause;

- Stuart Cole, Director of Wise Parking:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79845016/#Comment_79845016

- PALS again.  Look they CAN do more:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6405814/success-wise-parking-queen-elizabeth-hospital-woolwich

B789

First of all, it is not a "fine". You have received a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract from an unregulated private parking company. et that fact into your mind and you will be better able to deal with this.

Your situation is nowhere near "unique". You can search the forum for "double dipping" to see hundreds of similar examples.

You should go back to PALS and remind them about their responsibilities. The NHS car parking guidance for NHS trusts says:

• NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private contractors who run car parks on their behalf.
• NHS organisations should act against rogue contractors in line with the relevant codes of practice where applicable.
• Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises additional charges, for example, ‘income from parking charge notices only’.

As they are "responsible" for the actions of their agents, they are jointly liable and should this progress to court, they may want to review their stance and actually do something to get this unjust PCN cancelled. You may also want to remind them that as the PPC has not followed their own guidelines and double-checked their systems as required in order to rule out orphaned images, they have breached your GDPR by requesting your DVLA data and you are within your rights to sue not only the PPCs DPO but their own DPO too.

You should also copy in the NHS trusts CEO.

Half_way

are you saying that if this goes to court do you have a chance of getting some money from them?
if it is as you say you have grounds for a complaint/action over a GDPR breach.
and this case should be treated as such 

Le_Kirk

As well as the advice received, please note that nothing can be quite unique! It's either unique or It's not and as you've been advised, it is a well-known double dip and not unique at all.

fighting_injustice

Thank you all, in response to the court question, no i am not looking to get money. I just did not want to pay an unjust PCN.

are you saying that if this goes to court do you have a chance of getting some money from them?

Coupon-mad

Have you asked your MP to do what I suggested?