Wetroom shower leak - home insurance - cash settlement revoked

DailyClicker

Hi,

We had a leak through living room ceiling in early April, that came from the wet-room shower above. Moved into our house in 2021, wet-rooms were already installed.

Trace & access company came out on late April, unable to locate leak (not properly investigated).

Local plumber came out on 12th May, made access in ceiling in living room and used a multi-tool cutter to remove grout around perimeter of shower waste. All visible grout and silicone seal in good condition. 

Insurance company sent out their own surveyor, who took photos of the shower waste which had been "cut out", and denied the claim based on "loss of damage caused by sealant or grout failing to work properly or by an inappropriate sealant or grout being used".

We disputed this, provided invoice from local plumber which showed that he used the multi-tool cutter to gain access.

Cash settlement offered in June 2023, for replacement of wetroom tiles + living room ceiling repair. Insurance company were not willing to replace the underfloor heating in the wetroom, so lots of back and forth for last few months.

Raised a complaint early August 2023, received a call yesterday from internal surveying team, saying that this has triggered a review of the claim, and provided with an image to show the gap around the perimeter of shower waste, so the settlement has been voided.

Explained that the photo was taken by their surveyor after the local plumber had made access, they were in agreement as it was clear that there is a gap around the whole metal shower waste.

However, they are saying they are not sure about the cause of the damage, so will require a further Trace & Access company to visit the property. We are now 140 days since incident date. 

I believe the problem was likely slow drainage (small flexible waste pipe), which would back up and flow under the tiles - is this something that would typically be covered or excluded?

Would be grateful for any feedback/thoughts on the best way to handle this / move forwards?



Thanks,

ThisIsWeird

Has anyone been able to pinpoint where the water is actually coming through?

I'm not fully au fait with wet room design, but always assumed that there should be some form of membrane or tanking that made the floor (and walls) fully waterproof, so that mere grout was not relied on as the barrier.

So, where is the water coming through?

DailyClicker

ThisIsWeird said:

Has anyone been able to pinpoint where the water is actually coming through?

I'm not fully au fait with wet room design, but always assumed that there should be some form of membrane or tanking that made the floor (and walls) fully waterproof, so that mere grout was not relied on as the barrier.

So, where is the water coming through?

Thanks, as water is slow to drain, it is filling the waste and running over the circular bit of the plastic drain. It is then tracking under the tiles, along the shower tray and dripping through ceiling underneath

Does that make sense? 

DailyClicker

ThisIsWeird said:

Has anyone been able to pinpoint where the water is actually coming through?

I'm not fully au fait with wet room design, but always assumed that there should be some form of membrane or tanking that made the floor (and walls) fully waterproof, so that mere grout was not relied on as the barrier.

So, where is the water coming through?

Thanks, as water is slow to drain, it is filling the waste and running over the circular bit of the plastic drain. It is then tracking under the tiles, along the shower tray and dripping through ceiling underneath

Does that make sense? 

ThisIsWeird

Yes, that makes sense, thanks. Tho' it wouldn't have to be slow-draining and need to 'overflow' to do this, as there'd be enough water running along the bottom of the tray to get through a gap in any case. Ie, if the drain wasn't sealed correctly, then the 'slow draining' part is moot - it would just leak through the fault when in use, full stop.

So, this design relies on the plastic waste being sealed in that recess using silicone or similar? There's no secondary layer of tanking or protection?

Your insurance co is back-tracking because the plumber you called out cleared away the presumably-faulty sealant in order to investigate the cause, and your insurance co's surveyor is now saying the lack of sealant is the 'cause'? They won't take your plumber's word that it was he who cleared that away?

Insurance will usually cover a spontaneous fault arising from an issue that couldn't have been predicted or expected and wasn't due to negligence on your part - say, a pipe burst. What it won't usually cover are faults due to a lack of maintenance. Eg, if the visible sealant around a shower tray was clearly failing, peeling away, things like that, and the owner kept on using it regardless, that would be considered 'negligent'. You can expect a shower tray to require re-sealing every 5-10 years, for example, and the 'need' - when it happens - should be obvious. Your situation is likely different - the sealed part is effectively hidden away from the layman, and I'd imagine it would have been designed to have lasted the life of the whole installation, just like the pipes and connections, so don't require 'maintenance' as such. But, I don't know.

 Do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, call them up and explain the situation. See what they say.

DailyClicker

ThisIsWeird said:

Yes, that makes sense, thanks. Tho' it wouldn't have to be slow-draining and need to 'overflow' to do this, as there'd be enough water running along the bottom of the tray to get through a gap in any case. Ie, if the drain wasn't sealed correctly, then the 'slow draining' part is moot - it would just leak through the fault when in use, full stop.

So, this design relies on the plastic waste being sealed in that recess using silicone or similar? There's no secondary layer of tanking or protection?

Your insurance co is back-tracking because the plumber you called out cleared away the presumably-faulty sealant in order to investigate the cause, and your insurance co's surveyor is now saying the lack of sealant is the 'cause'? They won't take your plumber's word that it was he who cleared that away?

Insurance will usually cover a spontaneous fault arising from an issue that couldn't have been predicted or expected and wasn't due to negligence on your part - say, a pipe burst. What it won't usually cover are faults due to a lack of maintenance. Eg, if the visible sealant around a shower tray was clearly failing, peeling away, things like that, and the owner kept on using it regardless, that would be considered 'negligent'. You can expect a shower tray to require re-sealing every 5-10 years, for example, and the 'need' - when it happens - should be obvious. Your situation is likely different - the sealed part is effectively hidden away from the layman, and I'd imagine it would have been designed to have lasted the life of the whole installation, just like the pipes and connections, so don't require 'maintenance' as such. But, I don't know.

 Do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, call them up and explain the situation. See what they say.

Thank you, it is a Impey Aqua-Dec EasyFit which is designed in such a way that there is no silicone or seal needed.

Without lifting the tiles it is difficult to see if the wet room has tanking. 

Plumber cut away the grout around the shower waste to be able to access what you can see in the photos above. Insurance company have accepted this is why there is a gap around perimeter of shower waste. 

But they are still uncertain as to the cause of the water getting under the tiles, and running along the underfloor shower tray and then through the ceiling below. I suspect they are trying to identify a reason why the claim isn't valid. 

I'd agree that it would not be a valid claim is the visible grout and sealant was in poor condition, but this wasn't the case. They have appointed a trace and access leak detection company on Tuesday to write a report on the cause

Thanks for suggestion of legal protection, will take a look and get in touch with them too