Cancelling/tefund when having already placed an order?

robdex1

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

born_again said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

It depends when the contract undergoes an acceptance. It’s often when the order is dispatched but can vary. This is when the contracts is formalised - it’s rare for it to be the point of order (in case the retailer has the wrong price for the item), so I think up until that point either party can withdraw. 

This should be in the terms and conditions, so if you could let us know who it was you purchased it from, we can check their terms too. 

It is from onesgroup.co.uk. I have read elsewhere that if I have not yet received the item that I am within my rights to cancel it and if I don't get confirmation within 24 hours then I can claim a chargeback?

On what basis are you looking to chargeback?

Non receipt of goods is 15 day Visa & 30 days Mastercard. Both from date of debit. They can be done earlier, but require a date it was due to be delivered & as such needs to be in writing. Which can easily take as long to get evidence to bank.

But if you have cancelled & they have proof, then the above will fail.

Non receipt of refund is again same timescales & requires proof retailer has refunded (eg refund receipt)

On the basis that they told me an earlier delivery date originally but only over the phone. Also the fact that I sent four emails and called and left a message and they have ignored me and the item has just arrived today 

Your original post said an estimated delivery, estimates can change. Chargebacks are not a statutory right - and as such Visa/Mastercard can make up their own rules for it. I think you’d have a hard time to get a chargeback to stick. Academic at this point as you have the product. 

I think you should be able to return it, just less the delivery fees if you wanted to. 

OK thanks but what about the fact that I tried to cancel the order before it had been dispatched but got not reply. I thought that online orders can be cancelled up to any point before delivery?

RefluentBeans

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

born_again said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

It depends when the contract undergoes an acceptance. It’s often when the order is dispatched but can vary. This is when the contracts is formalised - it’s rare for it to be the point of order (in case the retailer has the wrong price for the item), so I think up until that point either party can withdraw. 

This should be in the terms and conditions, so if you could let us know who it was you purchased it from, we can check their terms too. 

It is from onesgroup.co.uk. I have read elsewhere that if I have not yet received the item that I am within my rights to cancel it and if I don't get confirmation within 24 hours then I can claim a chargeback?

On what basis are you looking to chargeback?

Non receipt of goods is 15 day Visa & 30 days Mastercard. Both from date of debit. They can be done earlier, but require a date it was due to be delivered & as such needs to be in writing. Which can easily take as long to get evidence to bank.

But if you have cancelled & they have proof, then the above will fail.

Non receipt of refund is again same timescales & requires proof retailer has refunded (eg refund receipt)

On the basis that they told me an earlier delivery date originally but only over the phone. Also the fact that I sent four emails and called and left a message and they have ignored me and the item has just arrived today 

Your original post said an estimated delivery, estimates can change. Chargebacks are not a statutory right - and as such Visa/Mastercard can make up their own rules for it. I think you’d have a hard time to get a chargeback to stick. Academic at this point as you have the product. 

I think you should be able to return it, just less the delivery fees if you wanted to. 

OK thanks but what about the fact that I tried to cancel the order before it had been dispatched but got not reply. I thought that online orders can be cancelled up to any point before delivery?

From my first post - it depends on when the contract was accepted - in a legal sense. Normally, retailers have this at the point of dispatch to give them time to back out of a contract (and this means you can withdraw your offer to buy the goods prior to this point). But some will make the acceptance when you get the order confirmation email. We couldn't establish when this was, and you can certainly argue with them over this and say you assumed that acceptance was at the point of dispatch, as with a lot of other websites, and that you attempted to withdraw from the contract. Contract law is confusing, and terms can be confusing. 

When you placed the order, is that when the delivery estimate changed? When you called up, what words did they use - was it a firm 'it'll get there for you on this date' or was it an estimation? You can argue that you formed the contract on the basis that the item was going to be delivered to you by a certain point, and I think that has more legs than acceptance as its a more understandable argument (i.e. I went with your company because you said it would be delivered at this date, and then you told me it would be later). That could be argued a breach of contract, but again, its an argument you'll need to have with them. 

FWIW - I think it depends how much work you're willing to put in and how much the item was compared to shipping. You say shipping was £12 - and it seems like you're liable for return shipping too. Assuming a further £12, how much is the £24 worth in time for you. If they don't give you a refund, the only way to compel them is by going to court really. I don't think a chargeback would be successful, and even if it was, they can still reject it, and if Visa/Mastercard find in their favour, they can reverse the chargeback. A chargeback isn't a legal statute and so doesn't say who was right or wrong...

robdex1

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

born_again said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

It depends when the contract undergoes an acceptance. It’s often when the order is dispatched but can vary. This is when the contracts is formalised - it’s rare for it to be the point of order (in case the retailer has the wrong price for the item), so I think up until that point either party can withdraw. 

This should be in the terms and conditions, so if you could let us know who it was you purchased it from, we can check their terms too. 

It is from onesgroup.co.uk. I have read elsewhere that if I have not yet received the item that I am within my rights to cancel it and if I don't get confirmation within 24 hours then I can claim a chargeback?

On what basis are you looking to chargeback?

Non receipt of goods is 15 day Visa & 30 days Mastercard. Both from date of debit. They can be done earlier, but require a date it was due to be delivered & as such needs to be in writing. Which can easily take as long to get evidence to bank.

But if you have cancelled & they have proof, then the above will fail.

Non receipt of refund is again same timescales & requires proof retailer has refunded (eg refund receipt)

On the basis that they told me an earlier delivery date originally but only over the phone. Also the fact that I sent four emails and called and left a message and they have ignored me and the item has just arrived today 

Your original post said an estimated delivery, estimates can change. Chargebacks are not a statutory right - and as such Visa/Mastercard can make up their own rules for it. I think you’d have a hard time to get a chargeback to stick. Academic at this point as you have the product. 

I think you should be able to return it, just less the delivery fees if you wanted to. 

OK thanks but what about the fact that I tried to cancel the order before it had been dispatched but got not reply. I thought that online orders can be cancelled up to any point before delivery?

From my first post - it depends on when the contract was accepted - in a legal sense. Normally, retailers have this at the point of dispatch to give them time to back out of a contract (and this means you can withdraw your offer to buy the goods prior to this point). But some will make the acceptance when you get the order confirmation email. We couldn't establish when this was, and you can certainly argue with them over this and say you assumed that acceptance was at the point of dispatch, as with a lot of other websites, and that you attempted to withdraw from the contract. Contract law is confusing, and terms can be confusing. 

When you placed the order, is that when the delivery estimate changed? When you called up, what words did they use - was it a firm 'it'll get there for you on this date' or was it an estimation? You can argue that you formed the contract on the basis that the item was going to be delivered to you by a certain point, and I think that has more legs than acceptance as its a more understandable argument (i.e. I went with your company because you said it would be delivered at this date, and then you told me it would be later). That could be argued a breach of contract, but again, its an argument you'll need to have with them. 

FWIW - I think it depends how much work you're willing to put in and how much the item was compared to shipping. You say shipping was £12 - and it seems like you're liable for return shipping too. Assuming a further £12, how much is the £24 worth in time for you. If they don't give you a refund, the only way to compel them is by going to court really. I don't think a chargeback would be successful, and even if it was, they can still reject it, and if Visa/Mastercard find in their favour, they can reverse the chargeback. A chargeback isn't a legal statute and so doesn't say who was right or wrong...

I spoke to someone on the 18th August and they said the order was confirmed and that delivery would be 22nd-24th August.  They took the money on the 18th which I have read is against credit card terms? Received an email on 22nd asking to confirm part number and then the next day another email saying it has been processed and expected delivery 3rd September.  The part is £102 including delivery. I tried numerous times to cancel the order but no reply

Alderbank

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

born_again said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

It depends when the contract undergoes an acceptance. It’s often when the order is dispatched but can vary. This is when the contracts is formalised - it’s rare for it to be the point of order (in case the retailer has the wrong price for the item), so I think up until that point either party can withdraw. 

This should be in the terms and conditions, so if you could let us know who it was you purchased it from, we can check their terms too. 

It is from onesgroup.co.uk. I have read elsewhere that if I have not yet received the item that I am within my rights to cancel it and if I don't get confirmation within 24 hours then I can claim a chargeback?

On what basis are you looking to chargeback?

Non receipt of goods is 15 day Visa & 30 days Mastercard. Both from date of debit. They can be done earlier, but require a date it was due to be delivered & as such needs to be in writing. Which can easily take as long to get evidence to bank.

But if you have cancelled & they have proof, then the above will fail.

Non receipt of refund is again same timescales & requires proof retailer has refunded (eg refund receipt)

On the basis that they told me an earlier delivery date originally but only over the phone. Also the fact that I sent four emails and called and left a message and they have ignored me and the item has just arrived today 

Your original post said an estimated delivery, estimates can change. Chargebacks are not a statutory right - and as such Visa/Mastercard can make up their own rules for it. I think you’d have a hard time to get a chargeback to stick. Academic at this point as you have the product. 

I think you should be able to return it, just less the delivery fees if you wanted to. 

OK thanks but what about the fact that I tried to cancel the order before it had been dispatched but got not reply. I thought that online orders can be cancelled up to any point before delivery?

From my first post - it depends on when the contract was accepted - in a legal sense. Normally, retailers have this at the point of dispatch to give them time to back out of a contract (and this means you can withdraw your offer to buy the goods prior to this point). But some will make the acceptance when you get the order confirmation email. We couldn't establish when this was, and you can certainly argue with them over this and say you assumed that acceptance was at the point of dispatch, as with a lot of other websites, and that you attempted to withdraw from the contract. Contract law is confusing, and terms can be confusing. 

When you placed the order, is that when the delivery estimate changed? When you called up, what words did they use - was it a firm 'it'll get there for you on this date' or was it an estimation? You can argue that you formed the contract on the basis that the item was going to be delivered to you by a certain point, and I think that has more legs than acceptance as its a more understandable argument (i.e. I went with your company because you said it would be delivered at this date, and then you told me it would be later). That could be argued a breach of contract, but again, its an argument you'll need to have with them. 

FWIW - I think it depends how much work you're willing to put in and how much the item was compared to shipping. You say shipping was £12 - and it seems like you're liable for return shipping too. Assuming a further £12, how much is the £24 worth in time for you. If they don't give you a refund, the only way to compel them is by going to court really. I don't think a chargeback would be successful, and even if it was, they can still reject it, and if Visa/Mastercard find in their favour, they can reverse the chargeback. A chargeback isn't a legal statute and so doesn't say who was right or wrong...

I spoke to someone on the 18th August and they said the order was confirmed and that delivery would be 22nd-24th August.  They took the money on the 18th which I have read is against credit card terms? 

Where did you read this and why would paying for something be against credit card terms?

RefluentBeans

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

born_again said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

It depends when the contract undergoes an acceptance. It’s often when the order is dispatched but can vary. This is when the contracts is formalised - it’s rare for it to be the point of order (in case the retailer has the wrong price for the item), so I think up until that point either party can withdraw. 

This should be in the terms and conditions, so if you could let us know who it was you purchased it from, we can check their terms too. 

It is from onesgroup.co.uk. I have read elsewhere that if I have not yet received the item that I am within my rights to cancel it and if I don't get confirmation within 24 hours then I can claim a chargeback?

On what basis are you looking to chargeback?

Non receipt of goods is 15 day Visa & 30 days Mastercard. Both from date of debit. They can be done earlier, but require a date it was due to be delivered & as such needs to be in writing. Which can easily take as long to get evidence to bank.

But if you have cancelled & they have proof, then the above will fail.

Non receipt of refund is again same timescales & requires proof retailer has refunded (eg refund receipt)

On the basis that they told me an earlier delivery date originally but only over the phone. Also the fact that I sent four emails and called and left a message and they have ignored me and the item has just arrived today 

Your original post said an estimated delivery, estimates can change. Chargebacks are not a statutory right - and as such Visa/Mastercard can make up their own rules for it. I think you’d have a hard time to get a chargeback to stick. Academic at this point as you have the product. 

I think you should be able to return it, just less the delivery fees if you wanted to. 

OK thanks but what about the fact that I tried to cancel the order before it had been dispatched but got not reply. I thought that online orders can be cancelled up to any point before delivery?

From my first post - it depends on when the contract was accepted - in a legal sense. Normally, retailers have this at the point of dispatch to give them time to back out of a contract (and this means you can withdraw your offer to buy the goods prior to this point). But some will make the acceptance when you get the order confirmation email. We couldn't establish when this was, and you can certainly argue with them over this and say you assumed that acceptance was at the point of dispatch, as with a lot of other websites, and that you attempted to withdraw from the contract. Contract law is confusing, and terms can be confusing. 

When you placed the order, is that when the delivery estimate changed? When you called up, what words did they use - was it a firm 'it'll get there for you on this date' or was it an estimation? You can argue that you formed the contract on the basis that the item was going to be delivered to you by a certain point, and I think that has more legs than acceptance as its a more understandable argument (i.e. I went with your company because you said it would be delivered at this date, and then you told me it would be later). That could be argued a breach of contract, but again, its an argument you'll need to have with them. 

FWIW - I think it depends how much work you're willing to put in and how much the item was compared to shipping. You say shipping was £12 - and it seems like you're liable for return shipping too. Assuming a further £12, how much is the £24 worth in time for you. If they don't give you a refund, the only way to compel them is by going to court really. I don't think a chargeback would be successful, and even if it was, they can still reject it, and if Visa/Mastercard find in their favour, they can reverse the chargeback. A chargeback isn't a legal statute and so doesn't say who was right or wrong...

I spoke to someone on the 18th August and they said the order was confirmed and that delivery would be 22nd-24th August.  They took the money on the 18th which I have read is against credit card terms? Received an email on 22nd asking to confirm part number and then the next day another email saying it has been processed and expected delivery 3rd September.  The part is £102 including delivery. I tried numerous times to cancel the order but no reply

The money may not have been ‘taken’ from your account - often the way transactions work is that the retailers bank asks your bank to check you have enough money in your account and to hold the orders value in your bank account until they request the transfer. That’s why it sits in your pending before it gets taken (it’s more complicated than that but that’s the summed up version). 

I’m not sure where you heard it was against credit card terms to preauthorise a payment. 

I think it’s unlikely you’ll have Section 75 protection as that only applies to items over £100, and your item is £90 (if shipping was £12). 

Like I said - you can try and get the retailer to refund the full amount explaining the situation. But they may not refund the full amount but refund the amount for the part (£90) and expect you to pay shipping back to them (I believe it was in their terms for customer to pay for return shipping). 

If you feel it was against your rights - you can try and go to small claims court. For £24, I’m not sure if it’s worth the hassle to be honest. If the retailer declines to pay for shipping then you can leave a bad review/shop elsewhere. 

Jonboy_1984

FYI often these companies use 3PL companies (3rd party logistics) or despatch direct from the supplier. This means that the orders are concentrated through warehouses handling thousands of orders a day. If the order has been printed in the warehouse, then cancellation becomes difficult as the order could be in large stacks of paperwork or in a pile of 1000+ orders ready to be collected, or somewhere in between ring picked and packed.

As a warehouse manager do you allocate someone to find it for a customer who is already unhappy, or leave the worker to potentially pack another 25/50/100 orders in the same time (not exaggerating here) and keep these other customers happier with prompt despatch of their order.


Regarding your question on credit card payment date visa’s rules(last time I read them) are that payment should really be finalised at the point of despatch. The reality is that they are satisfied and will not do anything if the shipper is dealing with their despatch’s within 7 days of finalising the payment.

born_again

Alderbank said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

robdex1 said:

born_again said:

robdex1 said:

RefluentBeans said:

It depends when the contract undergoes an acceptance. It’s often when the order is dispatched but can vary. This is when the contracts is formalised - it’s rare for it to be the point of order (in case the retailer has the wrong price for the item), so I think up until that point either party can withdraw. 

This should be in the terms and conditions, so if you could let us know who it was you purchased it from, we can check their terms too. 

It is from onesgroup.co.uk. I have read elsewhere that if I have not yet received the item that I am within my rights to cancel it and if I don't get confirmation within 24 hours then I can claim a chargeback?

On what basis are you looking to chargeback?

Non receipt of goods is 15 day Visa & 30 days Mastercard. Both from date of debit. They can be done earlier, but require a date it was due to be delivered & as such needs to be in writing. Which can easily take as long to get evidence to bank.

But if you have cancelled & they have proof, then the above will fail.

Non receipt of refund is again same timescales & requires proof retailer has refunded (eg refund receipt)

On the basis that they told me an earlier delivery date originally but only over the phone. Also the fact that I sent four emails and called and left a message and they have ignored me and the item has just arrived today 

Your original post said an estimated delivery, estimates can change. Chargebacks are not a statutory right - and as such Visa/Mastercard can make up their own rules for it. I think you’d have a hard time to get a chargeback to stick. Academic at this point as you have the product. 

I think you should be able to return it, just less the delivery fees if you wanted to. 

OK thanks but what about the fact that I tried to cancel the order before it had been dispatched but got not reply. I thought that online orders can be cancelled up to any point before delivery?

From my first post - it depends on when the contract was accepted - in a legal sense. Normally, retailers have this at the point of dispatch to give them time to back out of a contract (and this means you can withdraw your offer to buy the goods prior to this point). But some will make the acceptance when you get the order confirmation email. We couldn't establish when this was, and you can certainly argue with them over this and say you assumed that acceptance was at the point of dispatch, as with a lot of other websites, and that you attempted to withdraw from the contract. Contract law is confusing, and terms can be confusing. 

When you placed the order, is that when the delivery estimate changed? When you called up, what words did they use - was it a firm 'it'll get there for you on this date' or was it an estimation? You can argue that you formed the contract on the basis that the item was going to be delivered to you by a certain point, and I think that has more legs than acceptance as its a more understandable argument (i.e. I went with your company because you said it would be delivered at this date, and then you told me it would be later). That could be argued a breach of contract, but again, its an argument you'll need to have with them. 

FWIW - I think it depends how much work you're willing to put in and how much the item was compared to shipping. You say shipping was £12 - and it seems like you're liable for return shipping too. Assuming a further £12, how much is the £24 worth in time for you. If they don't give you a refund, the only way to compel them is by going to court really. I don't think a chargeback would be successful, and even if it was, they can still reject it, and if Visa/Mastercard find in their favour, they can reverse the chargeback. A chargeback isn't a legal statute and so doesn't say who was right or wrong...

I spoke to someone on the 18th August and they said the order was confirmed and that delivery would be 22nd-24th August.  They took the money on the 18th which I have read is against credit card terms? 

Where did you read this and why would paying for something be against credit card terms?

A retailer is legally entitled to take payment at point of order.
The likes of Amazon that only take payment on dispatch of goods do this, as it is their internal process, not any regulations. 
So where ever that idea that it is against card terms to take payment straight away is wrong.