Missing Parcel of Land on land registry plan

Grizebeck

Tiglet2 said:

Grizebeck said:

propertyrental said:

Not sure what mean by 'the original plan'? Is this a new (or recent build development, where a developer bought the whole area, chopped it up and sold off parcels with new houses on? If so, take a look at the council planning approvals. 

The LR might have a TP1, but if so it would be surprising if the title Plan did not reflect the TP1 plan.

If these are older properties then it could be that plot is owned by someone else and simply not registered. The current owner may or may not be aware of their ownership.

Have you done a map search at the LR (rather than address based)?

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/map-search/

And what have the seller's said about ownership of this plot (ignore the estate agent marketing guff).

Have you knocked on the neighbours' doors yet?

Depending on the results, one long term option would be to buy, use the land as if you owned it, and then claim adverse possession.

I mean the original paper documents , its from the 1950s
Ive done a map search of the parcel of land in questions and no results
its a probate sale so they wont know
the neighbour says the house runs all way down to the river and part of the island, (her land isnt registered and has lived there all her life)

The original plan from the 50s may differ from the current title plan held at Land Registry, because over the years land changes where bits are transferred or acquired, so you cannot rely on a plan from 70 years ago.  The red outline shows the extent of the property you are buying.  

I'd suggest doing a map search of the area you have marked green and yellow and see if it is in the same ownership as the property but on a separate title, or whether someone else owns it.  Or isn't it registered?

thanks
Ive checked both bits and there are no results returned for it

Grizebeck

Tiglet2 said:

Grizebeck said:

propertyrental said:

Not sure what mean by 'the original plan'? Is this a new (or recent build development, where a developer bought the whole area, chopped it up and sold off parcels with new houses on? If so, take a look at the council planning approvals. 

The LR might have a TP1, but if so it would be surprising if the title Plan did not reflect the TP1 plan.

If these are older properties then it could be that plot is owned by someone else and simply not registered. The current owner may or may not be aware of their ownership.

Have you done a map search at the LR (rather than address based)?

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/map-search/

And what have the seller's said about ownership of this plot (ignore the estate agent marketing guff).

Have you knocked on the neighbours' doors yet?

Depending on the results, one long term option would be to buy, use the land as if you owned it, and then claim adverse possession.

I mean the original paper documents , its from the 1950s
Ive done a map search of the parcel of land in questions and no results
its a probate sale so they wont know
the neighbour says the house runs all way down to the river and part of the island, (her land isnt registered and has lived there all her life)

The original plan from the 50s may differ from the current title plan held at Land Registry, because over the years land changes where bits are transferred or acquired, so you cannot rely on a plan from 70 years ago.  The red outline shows the extent of the property you are buying.  

I'd suggest doing a map search of the area you have marked green and yellow and see if it is in the same ownership as the property but on a separate title, or whether someone else owns it.  Or isn't it registered?

ive checked and its unregistered

daveyjp

Unregistered simply means whoever owns it has never sold the land during the period of compulsory registration.

It can be quite interesting detective work going through records to trace owners, but it can take time.
.

Grizebeck

daveyjp said:

Unregistered simply means whoever owns it has never sold the land during the period of compulsory registration.

It can be quite interesting detective work going through records to trace owners, but it can take time.
.

yes thats right
I am wondering thus, and its hobsons choice
next door isnt registered as someone has lived in there for a long time , is it possible they could own it (although it looks like separate gardens)
If i say nothing and she doesnt die in the next 5 years or move etc then can go down the adverse possession route
If i say something it may twig and she may actually do something....

Wonka_2

We have similar in our locality where the local rivers authority retain ownership of the last 10ft or so between houses and river. It's easy to spot as all fences/hedges are set back from river bank (and aligned) and all have gates/gaps in. The residents retain access rights and there is no other public right of way on the land. I'd have expected your solicitor would have been able to find if a similar situation is in this case.

Tiglet2

Grizebeck said:

daveyjp said:

Unregistered simply means whoever owns it has never sold the land during the period of compulsory registration.

It can be quite interesting detective work going through records to trace owners, but it can take time.
.

yes thats right
I am wondering thus, and its hobsons choice
next door isnt registered as someone has lived in there for a long time , is it possible they could own it (although it looks like separate gardens)
If i say nothing and she doesnt die in the next 5 years or move etc then can go down the adverse possession route
If i say something it may twig and she may actually do something....

You'd have to fence in the unregistered land and use it as part of your garden for the next 10-12 years (not sure which).  Then you could apply for adverse permission.  You'd need a Statutory Declaration sworn by a solicitor that you've maintained and used the land for 10-12 years and that it has been fully enclosed within your curtilage.  Land Registry would send an Ordnance Surveyor to assess the site, then Land Registry would send out letters to all "interested parties", i.e. your neighbours, Network Rail, etc etc giving them around 3 weeks to respond to the letter with objections.  If no-one objects, then you should be successful in the adverse possession application.

But, as you can see from the above, this is not a quick process, nor is it certain that you will get the land.  If someone objects and can prove from old deeds that this is their land, Land Registry will not grant you possession.

Grizebeck

@Tiglet2
https://www.myconveyancingspecialist.com/7-year-boundary-rule-what-is-it/#:~:text=What is the 7 year,years to claim the title.

Bluebell1000

When we got our house, the land registry documents (after purchase, first registration done on purchase) showed most of the garden was missing. We just raised it as being incorrect and they came out and redrew it for us. Could it also be something like that for you?

sheramber

Grizebeck said:

@Tiglet2
https://www.myconveyancingspecialist.com/7-year-boundary-rule-what-is-it/#:~:text=What is the 7 year,years to claim the title.

Would the person not have to applied for adverse possession to become an adverse possessor, not merely use the land?

Tiglet2

Grizebeck said:

@Tiglet2
https://www.myconveyancingspecialist.com/7-year-boundary-rule-what-is-it/#:~:text=What is the 7 year,years to claim the title.

Has the current owner adversely possessed the land by enclosing it in their garden with a fence around it.  Has the current owner been maintaining the land and using it as part of their garden?  Do they have proof that they have done this for 7 years?  Even if they have, you would still need to continue using it for 5 years before making an adverse possession claim.