Why am I still having to pay a Electricity Standing Charge, when I export more than I import.

gbhxu

I have one simple idea.

You don't get paid when you export.

You just get credited for the amount you export in kWh.

You then have this number of kWh when you don't generate enough for your own use

wrf12345

Reality is that Ofgem have loaded up the s/c with non-grid stuff to compensate the energy companies for the "losses" they made when prices spiked during the Ukraine war and to also compensate them for taking on loss making customers from failed energy retailers - there was no reason why those costs could not be added to unit costs rather than standing charges other than greed. It is true that solar owners are putting more stress on the grid but they are also supplying cheap energy into the grid and a case can be made for reducing or eliminating s/c's when solar is fitted, as an added incentive, but the whole industry is geared up for ripping off consumers at every point of interaction and such a change would not be tolerated by those in positions of power, their minds just can't grasp the concept of fair play.

BarelySentientAI

gbhxu said:

I have one simple idea.

You don't get paid when you export.

You just get credited for the amount you export in kWh.

You then have this number of kWh when you don't generate enough for your own use

Net metering.

Was originally proposed, and then discarded because it wasn't lucrative enough.

Remember how high the payments were for the first few iterations of Feed in Tariff?

Also doesn't account for the non-energy part of the cost of exporting.  If you export, someone then has to look after where that power is going and account for how it balances with everything else (amongst other things).  That cost can't be netted against the same cost when importing, because they are both cost in the same direction.

wrf12345 said:

Reality is that Ofgem have loaded up the s/c with non-grid stuff to compensate the energy companies for the "losses" they made when prices spiked during the Ukraine war and to also compensate them for taking on loss making customers from failed energy retailers - there was no reason why those costs could not be added to unit costs rather than standing charges other than greed. 

That argument has no logic at all.  The mechanism by which they recover cost, if the total amount recovered is identical, can't possibly be "greed" one way and not the other.

There are certainly arguments to say that some of the things included in energy bills could be funded elsewhere or dropped entirely - but arguing about moving them from SC to UR is just "I want someone else to pay them".

Scot_39

There are things loaded onto all of our bills that arguably shouldnt be - green levies, insulation grant schemes etc.  - and then theirs the choice of splitting costs  between daily SC and units.
That have been debated for years in past threads, who wins who loses if changes  etc

But that does not mean there is a case for a lowered SC specifically for solar exporters.

And arguably there very presence - approaching 5% of homes - growing rapidly of late (15% last year) - forces such charges on to the standing charge - in order for them to carry their share.

As any component on unit rates - well simply put -  zero kWh import times x or xxp levy on unit rates = 0p.

And if they don't contribute - the 95% without - at real risk of carrying the burden even more unfairly.

There is in fact good technical case for them to pay additional costs - balancing / generator standby / curtailment costs.  And to cover any increased activity by local DNO operators.

Basically if anyone with solar ever needs to take power from the grid - even if only a few hours per day week or year - the generation plant and infrastructure has to exist - and therefore so does it capital and maintenance costs.
If they want to export, the infrastructure has to be there, and worse still actually modified at additional cost to cope

It's quite simple really - if they think they don't want to pay the costs of a connection - they have of course the option to disconnect from the grid. I am sure someone can work out the cost and battery sizing required.  And the payback via saving on SC rates and the loss of export tariff.


Many with solar save more than enough - or earn more than enough in export payments - to cover much if not all of their bills including the standing charge anyway.

You could as easily counter argue - Ofgem should actually be making them pay 2 standing charges.  1 for import like the rest of us - 1 for export reflecting different costs.

Qyburn

gbhxu said:

I have one simple idea.
You don't get paid when you export.
You just get credited for the amount you export in kWh.
You then have this number of kWh when you don't generate enough for your own use

That's effectively rewarding export at the same rate you'd pay for import. So someone with solar could dump all their spare power at whatever time suits, then import (free) at peak times.

Qyburn

Scot_39 said:

Depends whether look at grid or local distrinutiin - but domestic solars growth easily now impacts both in different ways.

Last uk wide estimate i saw c1.3m solar installs by early 2024 - nearly 5% of homes -  no doubt with very localised pockets as it's not a cheap install.

Not sure that load vs local balance will be true in many areas

The comment was from the part of SSEN the deals with generation connection applications so I expect he was correct in terms of how they assess an application.

That was in the context of connection point served by an 11kV circuit with individual transformer for each customer. These circuits cover a wide area and serve a mix of houses, businesses, farms. I can imagine it might well be different in a new housing estate where every other house has solar panels.

Even last year our G.99 application was assessed solely on the capacity of our connection, transformer type and size, service cable length and cross-section.

pete-20-11

Qyburn said:

gbhxu said:

I have one simple idea.
You don't get paid when you export.
You just get credited for the amount you export in kWh.
You then have this number of kWh when you don't generate enough for your own use

That's effectively rewarding export at the same rate you'd pay for import. So someone with solar could dump all their spare power at whatever time suits, then import (free) at peak times.

Pretty much what I’ve got with Octopus Intelligent Flux 

import (inc vat) is the same price as export (no VAT on export)

the only difference is there’s a three hour peak rate (4-7pm) - again both import and export are the same price, but higher price/reward than the rest of the day.