Conservatory added in 2008 - no planning permission

Emily_Joy

It looks like the owners in 2008 added a new conservatory (they also installed new boiler, DPC, rewired the house). There appears to be no permission granted from the local council and it still listed in the planning permission section on the council website as "pending validation". Then the owner/vendor in 2017 took "restrictive covenant indemnity insurance" which I think was related to the issue. Now the firm who sold the indemnity insurance seems to went into administration in 2020... as far as I was able to establish. Some of it was bought by Specialist Risk Group "SRG".

My questions are:

1. Do I understand correctly that the is no real risk of the local authority enforcement due to the fact it was done in 2008?

2. How does one solve this problem properly?

Jonboy_1984

The indemnity policy might well to a covenant that has been breached rather than anything to do with planning rules.

E.g. our house is an ex council house and has a covenant against any structural alterations without the council’s permission. This permission would need to be sought from a completely different department to planning permission or building control…

ThisIsWeird

Emily_Joy said:

It looks like the owners in 2008 added a new conservatory (they also installed new boiler, DPC, rewired the house). There appears to be no permission granted from the local council and it still listed in the planning permission section on the council website as "pending validation". Then the owner/vendor in 2017 took "restrictive covenant indemnity insurance" which I think was related to the issue. Now the firm who sold the indemnity insurance seems to went into administration in 2020... as far as I was able to establish. Some of it was bought by Specialist Risk Group "SRG".

My questions are:

1. Do I understand correctly that the is no real risk of the local authority enforcement due to the fact it was done in 2008?

2. How does one solve this problem properly?

If the 'pending validation' comment does refer to the conservatory, then I suspect it's unlikely the indemnity policy would have had any remaining value in any case, as one of the standard conditions is that you do not inform the potentially-actioning group of the 'issue', or they shouldn't even be aware of it. Eg, once you'd take out an IndPol, you wouldn't then go to the council and say "I have built a connie - are you bovvered?" or else the IP would be instantly invalidated.

I do not know the significance of the 'pending validation' part, but in general terms the time available for the LA to taken action has waaaay long gone, for both Planning Permission, and Building Control. But, I don't know if, say, the PendVal' part means their window remains open - but I doubt it.

From what I can see with a quick Google, 'PendVal' is just the space of time it takes the LA to approve a planning application, which is normally in the order of weeks or a couple of months, and not 15+ years. I would cautiously hazard, but with barely any caution, that you have zero to worry about in terms of enforcement.

I'm guessing that the policy taken out in 2017 was because the owners were planning to sell the property?

The only exception to the above that I'm aware of is if the property is listed, or otherwise restricted from such additions via actionable covenants in the deeds, or if the place was a safety risk - on the verge of falling down.

What do you think the chances of action are?! Do other neighbouring folk have connies? Are you in a national park or similar?  

Section62

ThisIsWeird said:

I do not know the significance of the 'pending validation' part, but in general terms the time available for the LA to taken action has waaaay long gone, for both Planning Permission, and Building Control. But, I don't know if, say, the PendVal' part means their window remains open - but I doubt it.

From what I can see with a quick Google, 'PendVal' is just the space of time it takes the LA to approve a planning application, which is normally in the order of weeks or a couple of months, and not 15+ years. I would cautiously hazard, but with barely any caution, that you have zero to worry about in terms of enforcement.

Google is wrong.

Validation is the process which comes before the council considers a planning application - the idea is that the submission (and fee) are checked to make sure everything is in order.  The LPA won't consider the application until they are happy they have everything they need.

"Pending validation" suggests the application was submitted, but for some reason didn't pass the validation stage - which could be that something was missing from the application, or possibly even that the LPA suggested an application wasn't needed but the applicant never got round to formally withdrawing it.

As a general rule planning departments like things to be neat and tidy, so this "pending validation" status being around for as long as it has would make me want to find out more.

In terms of enforcement, the time limit depends on what action has already been taken, and the circumstances of the case - for example if a listed building is involved, or in cases where formal enforcement action has already started, then there is no time limit.

I think more caution would be wise.  The circumstances of the application and why it hasn't been progressed need to be clarified.  For example, it could be the council suggested the owners made a retrospective application to avoid enforcement action but the application wasn't acceptable and therefore formal enforcement action was started instead.  Although it may be improbable that enforcement action would resume now, I would be on the lookout for an enforcement notice that nobody has (yet) seen fit to mention.

TELLIT01

What is the size of the conservatory?  That would help determine whether or not planning permission was required.

sevenhills

TELLIT01 said:

What is the size of the conservatory?  That would help determine whether or not planning permission was required.

It's quite likely that planning permission was not needed. It sounds like this is on a house bought by the OP, so passed by their legal team at the time of purchase.

Emily_Joy

The conservatory is about 3 by 3 meters, but I don't know the exact dimensions. The construction of the conservatory is a breach of the covenant. The house was actually sold in 2017 and the indemnity insurance was taken by the previous owners around the completion date. I am getting very confused now.

Green_hopeful

I think there are three things here to consider. 

1. Did the conservatory need planning permission? When we built our conservatory we didn’t need planning permission but that was a long time ago. I think they said it didn’t need it if it met the requirements of a porch. Door to the house and door to the outside. I would search the local authority’s website to try to find out/Google it. I suspect it doesn’t need permission at all. 

2. Did the conservatory need building regulations approval? I don’t know the answer but again I would search on the local authority website. I don’t think it is needed for the conservatory. But if it is needed Building regulations approval can be sought retrospectively. They test it against the regulations at the time it was built. 

3. Was the conservatory built in breach of a covenant? A covenant is a promise between two people or parties that transfers with the property. Is the covenant between parties that still exist. If not then no one can enforce. If yes then potentially it could be enforced. Our local landowner has covenants over loads of houses locally and most people pay no attention. They could enforce against us to pay a fee for permission to build under the covenant and I believe some people do get permission. 

So you need to read the covenant and see who holds the benefit and if they still exist. During the purchase process the solicitor should have explained this to you. If the council holds the benefit of the restrictive covenant it may be possible to find out what is expected to get consent. Don’t contact the council at this stage if they hold the benefit because that would stop you being able to get indemnity insurance. Normally people just get a new insurance policy. It normally a one off fee, not lots of money and lasts forever. 

The boiler installation would have required building regulations notification. The installer should have told the council. You can normally check if this was done on the council building regulations website. You can normally search by postcode. If you don’t have it recorded by the council it is very unlikely to be enforced because the time limit for the council enforcing is 12 months but you could probably get it done retrospectively or again you could get indemnity insurance. I refused to do this at my last house because I didn’t think the council would enforce when the boiler had been in for 9 years. 

Not sure about the rules for rewiring but you should be able to find out online or perhaps see if you can track down the installers and ask if they did it. 

Section62

Green_hopeful said:

1. Did the conservatory need planning permission? When we built our conservatory we didn’t need planning permission but that was a long time ago. I think they said it didn’t need it if it met the requirements of a porch. Door to the house and door to the outside. I would search the local authority’s website to try to find out/Google it. I suspect it doesn’t need permission at all. 

Conservatories can either be permitted development (consent granted by the Secretary of State) or need full planning consent from the local planning authority.  Whether or not full planning consent is required depends on the circumstances of each case. There is no general "conservatories don't need planning consent" rule (people get confused with the Building Regs situation where a general rule does apply).

The planning system treats conservatories broadly the same as extensions.  The permitted development rules relate to overall size, size relative to the plot, the overall height, and the position relative to the house/boundaries/highways.  AFAIK there is no requirement for a conservatory to have a door to the outside to be permitted development.

There's a basic guide to the current permitted development rules for conservatories here -

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/conservatories/Conservatory.pdf

Porches are a different and separate class for permitted development (and have been for a very long time).  For PD to apply a porch must be over an existing extenal door and less than 3sqm externally (inter alia).  It is unlikely anyone would want to build a conservatory of less than 3sqm internal floor area, therefore conservatories would rarely meet the PD requirements of a porch.

Emily_Joy

ThisIsWeird said:

What do you think the chances of action are?! Do other neighbouring folk have connies? Are you in a national park or similar?  

We are not in a national park, we are in a small old town, some buildings on the street are from early 17th century, but the house in question is not in conservation area and not listed. It is rather hard to say what others have - but the house next door submitted a planning permission request to replace a conservatory with 2-storey extension, and this request was approved. This was 2 or 3 years ago. So I am guessing they had a conservatory back then.  

ThisIsWeird

Emily_Joy said:

It looks like the owners in 2008 added a new conservatory (they also installed new boiler, DPC, rewired the house). There appears to be no permission granted from the local council and it still listed in the planning permission section on the council website as "pending validation". Then the owner/vendor in 2017 took "restrictive covenant indemnity insurance" which I think was related to the issue. Now the firm who sold the indemnity insurance seems to went into administration in 2020... as far as I was able to establish. Some of it was bought by Specialist Risk Group "SRG".

My questions are:

1. Do I understand correctly that the is no real risk of the local authority enforcement due to the fact it was done in 2008?

2. How does one solve this problem properly?

Re-reading your post, Emily, the Indemnity Ins Policy was taken out against a 'restrictive covenant' which is presumably in your deeds, and not against a lack of PP as I'd assumed. As far as I know, the LA Planning department wouldn't be concerned about covenants in your deeds, as that has nothing to do with them. They will only be concerned about their own Planning requirements. (Possibly this 'restrictive covenant' is one of theirs, the LA's?! Could that be the case, S62?)

Have you bought this house, Emily? If so, what RestCovs do your deeds contain? And who wrote it (almost certainly the builder/developer)? As I understand it, only the author of the RestCov and their rightful associates can enforce it, so are they still around?

Ok, I reckon first thing is to read your deeds; note the RestCovs in there, and see who the original composer of the deeds were - eg the builder. Next is to contact SRG and check if your II policy is still valid with them. I'd have thought it surely is? I mean, what's the point of having an insurance policy to guard against future events if that policy itself isn't protected - surely these are also insurance-backed?

Depending on what you find, is it possible for you to take out your own IndPolicy to guard against any potential action?