Dispute over LVT flooring

ComicGeek

Grumpy_chap said:

There must be people who make a success of the LVT products.
I have simply never met any.

From my experience, the fundamental problem is that the LVT product is "solid" and only 3 mm or less in thickness.  If the sub-base is then anything less than perfect, the boards don't sit flush but one is proud of the next.  The "proper" (as per instruction) way to lay the LVT is direct to the floor with no underlay of any kind.
We also found there was no depth to take up any variance at the boundary either, so if the skirting or door sill is not perfect, that leaves unsightly gaps also.

This "thin and solid" flooring is entirely unforgiving and quite unusual:

• Carpet (obviously) is flexible in itself and has a thickness to it (even carpet tiles) and usually an underlay
• Floor tiles have enough thickness of cement / adhesive to press down and take minor intolerances in the sub base.
• Lino usually has an inbuilt foam below the wear layer.
• Wooden flooring is laid on a rather firm foam support base

It really is, in my opinion, a fundamental flaw that the LVT products require such a perfect floor.  If you had a floor that was good enough, you would probably not want to cover it anyway.

This is ridiculous - just because your installer got it wrong doesn't mean that it's a bad product! 

Very happy with ours, as are everyone I know who has had it. Just need to get the right person to prep the floor, that takes more time and skill than the LVT laying itself.

Nearlyold

We've K Dean in the bathroom, kitchen, utility, and ensuites and not had the slightest problem with it. Downstairs it's on a solid floor and upstairs on floorboards. Think the fitter screeded the solid floor and laid ply on the upstairs.  No odd gaps in the skirting etc either. 

Can't see any reason why we wouldn't use it again. Though if it is so sensitive to the quality of fitting we'll have to wait at least a year as the fitter we used is taking a year out to refurbish his own place.

tempsc

Bradden said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I feel for the OP but they probably have to right this off as a loss.
These Karndean and similar floors are really something of a image over quality product.  They need hopelessly pure sub bases and have no depth or underlay to take up any imperfections.  Totally unrealistic.  The sooner they are called out on this the better.
We learned this the hard way and gave the whole job up as a lost cause simply laying carpet over it.  Turns out a sub-standard Karndean floor is quite a good base for making even cheap carpet look respectable, so every cloud does have a silver lining.

Did you use an approved fitter. In my experience from the retail side I've found karndean to be excellent at after sales.. it's their reputation. The Op hasn't said what brand they purchased but it may be worth speaking to them if they used an approved fitter.

No I didn't Bradden. Lesson learnt there.

tempsc

JetpackVelociraptor said:

"I would then have to but a new floor and have it fitted which I would assume would involve another £2-3000 maybe? Can I make a comprehensive claim on all the above in this situation?"

Your claim isn't for the faulty floor plus an entire new floor, because in that scenario you would be getting the floor for free! Yes. Agree with that. My bad. I was getting carried away.

What I'd do in your situation is get someone else in with a good reputation and get them to quote for the work required to fix the problem. Better yet, get three quotes from three different people and pick one that seems knowledgeable and isn't the cheapest. The value of that quote, including any additional materials required to do the exact same job, is the total value of your claim against the contractor who already did the work. A bit unsure about that proposal. Couldn't the guy I'm in dispute with just say "Well, XX would say that woldn't they as they want the work?" This is why I wondered if I needed to get an independent expert/consultant in?

It's not up to you how he pays the money, whether he does so through an insurance claim or just pays, so I would not mention it. It's his insurance to claim on, not yours. However unless it's a very small operation that's already doing badly, I can't imagine it would make sense for him to close his business down for that amount of money. I've subsequently found that he isn't operating a company as no records exist on Companies House. Assume he's a sole trader? Could this be an issue?

A few questions that come to mind, that you might want to think on. What is the usual effect of underfloor heating on the type of the adhesive that the tiler used, does it cause it to fail? I assume that ii must affect the glue, perhaps softening it? Unsure but will speak with the manufacturers tomorrow and find out.

I presume it's obvious that there is underfloor heating, or that you informed the tiler of it if it isn't obvious. Yes. Installer knew there was undefloor heating as he specifically told me not to use it or when we did, to only increase the temperature gradually. Evidence of that would be useful.

Why do you think the self-levelling compound didn't set, and was this laid by the same tiler? Self levelling compound was applied the day before but I noticed that same evening it was taking far longer than he told us it would take to dry. I put a fan on and left it running the whole night. The following morning, the compound was still very damp and I texted him to let him know. I have that text of course and his rely advising all would be OK. That is why I think he put the floor down too soon but of course now it's been down for as long as it has, I assume it will be very difficult to prove or impossible.

Finally, are you absolutely certain that you haven't done anything that could have caused the issue - for eg using the floor before the adhesive had set, overloading it, flood damage, excessive heat etc? No. We were told it would OK to walk on after around 4 hours. We didn't step on it for 24hrs. The adhesive was a 'PS' type = pressure sensitive so any steps should, in theory, be beneficial in it bonding even better. No undefloor heating used since installation. No floods, spills, damage etc.

Hope I've provided sufficient, further info for clarity. Thanks.