Planning saying windows glazing bars not acceptable

housebuyer7

Hello, I am in a Conservation area where Article 4 applies. The property is not listed.

I have applied for planning to replace the 80s-installed UPVC windows with accoya sash windows.

Planning have come back to me to say the submitted window section plan shows the glazing bars as being stuck on. This would not be allowed within the conservation and article 4 areas. As such, an amended plan will be required if the glazing bars are to be integral within the window. 

I have spoken with my neighbour who replaced her windows in 2021 and she advised her glazing bars are “stuck on” and this did not raise any issue with planning - it was fully approved and the windows are now installed.

I want to push back on this request as it is going to mean the glazing bars are much thicker, and I will need double the glass so that will be thicker and heavier. This is going to drive the cost up and mean the windows will not look in keeping with the rest of my street.

I presume if I push ahead and tell them to provide their decision based on the existing plans it’s just going to get rejected. But I don’t agree with their request and will mean the whole project is unaffordable. 

Section62

housebuyer7 said:I have spoken with my neighbour who replaced her windows in 2021 and she advised her glazing bars are “stuck on” and this did not raise any issue with planning - it was fully approved and the windows are now installed.

Have you seen a copy of the planning decision notice?  Does it comment at all on the windows?  Are you absolutely sure the neighbour got planning consent?  Often the phrase "fully approved" means the builder/DG company just assured the homeowner that planning consent wasn't needed - the planning decision notice(s) may then tell a different story.

In any event, each case is considered on its own merits, so a neighbour getting consent two years ago doesn't guarantee you'll get the same decision now.

I want to push back on this request as it is going to mean the glazing bars are much thicker, and I will need double the glass so that will be thicker and heavier. This is going to drive the cost up and mean the windows will not look in keeping with the rest of my street.

Don't place too much emphasis on "look in keeping with the rest of my street".  The conservation officer will have regard to other properties in the street, but the idea of a conservation area isn't to have a street full of identical properties.

Rather than anything confrontational, talk to the CO and get a better understanding of why they are minded the way they are.  You'll get a better result with honey rather than vinegar.

Why would this change result in needing "double the glass"?

housebuyer7

Yes I have seen the full planning granted on the council website for the neighbours property. It is not hearsay, I can see all the documents and the planning response. 

I understand what you are saying, but my street all has the same properties, and all have the same windows. I don’t want mine to differ with thick glazing bars. 

I would need double glazing units for integrated bars rather than a single pane.

I could speak to the planning officer but I don’t see what that will achieve? I don’t want the windows to look how he wants, and I can’t afford to do it that way. So I guess my only option is wait for it to be rejected and keep the UPVC?

CSI_Yorkshire

housebuyer7 said:

I would need double glazing units for integrated bars rather than a single pane.

Why would anyone install single glazing in 2023?

housebuyer7

Sorry no it will be double glazing, I am just not sure what the manufacturers meant as they said doing the bars how the planners want will require extra glass

flashg67

Maybe they mean each section will be seperate glazed units rather than one piece with stuck on bars - shouldn't be hugely more expensive though?

ComicGeek

You'll get a poorer U-value with glazing bars though, ie more heat loss through in winter. They're the weak spot thermally in a window, I wouldn't want them.

'Georgian' glazing bars can add 30% to the heat loss according to a window manufacturer I spoke with this morning. 

BUFF

flashg67 said:

Maybe they mean each section will be seperate glazed units rather than one piece with stuck on bars - shouldn't be hugely more expensive though?

depending upon the no. of panes/IGUs  (e.g. a lot of Edwardian windows may have 8 in the top sash) it could add significantly to the labour cost of manufacture & a little to the material cost.

chenOmania

i am sorry if i am bothering anyone with this message here,i know thread is old, but i have kinda same problem(not with the bars, but still with glazing & window replacing). Straight to the point: housebuyer7, dude, can u post an update on your results?How you resolved situation with architectural glazing company? They accepted your terms? 

Section62

chenOmania said:

i am sorry if i am bothering anyone with this message here,i know thread is old, but i have kinda same problem(not with the bars, but still with glazing & window replacing). Straight to the point: housebuyer7, dude, can u post an update on your results?How you resolved situation with architectural glazing company? They accepted your terms? 

An update might be interesting, but probably not of much use to you.  Each planning decision is made on its own merits, so even if housebuyer7 managed to get their conservation officer to agree to their preferred design, there's no guarantee you'd be able to get the same result (not even if you live on the same street and the same CO was responsible for your property)

twopenny

I worked briefly in planning for historic houses and conservation areas.

The planning officers are usually amenable to explaining in detail what and why if approached kindly. Some areas even have consultation days.

It's always worth asking for the 'why' in detail.

Even if it only means you don't get your way but understand why the decision was made. They don't make it on personal choice but on the rules in place at the time.

However if the area council is understaffed it's tricky.