Mobile phone stolen - 'proof of usage'

prowla

*Kat* said:

PHK said:

Brie said:

If the insurance company won't accept their own company's information that you had the phone then I'd be raising a complaint to the affect that you have been financially disadvantaged by their processes.  

Whoa, hang on. Most mobile phone insurance covers a phone that is active and being used (rather than unused in a drawer or box). The terms and conditions require that a working SIM is in the phone.

The proof of usage is not proof of ownership but proof that the phone has been in use up to the point of loss.

There are case histories on the Financial Ombudsman Service website. I can't find any that went in the customers favour if a SIM wasn't in the insured phone.

OP check the terms and conditions. If they say an active SIM needs to be in the phone then I'm afraid you won't be succesfull in a claim.

I have checked the T&Cs and the only part which mentions SIM: 

Cover is limited to phones that: 

1. are the manufacturers standard design and specification;
2. have SIM card capability and are able to make and receive telephone calls and SMS messages when connected to a mobile phone network; 
3. cannot be used as a satellite phone; and 
4. have not been manufactured wholly or partly from precious or semi-precious metals, stones or crystals

Well, 4 is a wierd stipulation, as electronic devices typically contain precious & semi-precious metals in their manufacture.

WelshPaul

So it doesn’t say you need an active SIM in the handset at all times.

*have SIM card capability and are able to make and receive telephone calls and SMS messages when connected to a mobile phone network; 

So the device did have SIM card capabilities. And it could be used to make and receive telephone calls and SMS messages when connected to a mobile phone network. The key word being WHEN!

Does Clause 3 mean that any claim for an iPhone 14 or iPhone 14 Pro would have their claim rejected as they have satellite phone capabilities?

*Kat*

WelshPaul said:

So it doesn’t say you need an active SIM in the handset at all times.

*have SIM card capability and are able to make and receive telephone calls and SMS messages when connected to a mobile phone network; 

So the device did have SIM card capabilities. And it could be used to make and receive telephone calls and SMS messages when connected to a mobile phone network. The key word being WHEN!

Does Clause 3 mean that any claim for an iPhone 14 or iPhone 14 Pro would have their claim rejected as they have satellite phone capabilities?

Who even knows - I asked why they need proof of usage - their reply: Thank you for your email. Proof of Usage is a standard document that we request for all types of claims regardless of how long the customer has had the device for.

I've gone back with a really long email asking why this is a requirement when it's not a requirement in my TCs that I need to actively be using the device. Right now I'm using an iPhone 13 mini, but does that mean that because I'm not using my iphone 8 right now - it's not covered if something were to happen? (The policy covers ALL of my mobile phone devices (except work mobiles)). 

Really poor service from Aviva so far. Will update with their response

WelshPaul

Another thing, what if you have a phone with only eSIM support? Their terms and conditions would make such a device ineligible for payout as it clearly states SIM card.

Anyway, good luck with your claim. I would file a small claims case against them if they denied my claim. Well, provided the terms didn’t backup their verbal or written statements about requiring proof of usage! That being said, I would never take out insurance on a phone.

PHK

Is thuis PhoneCare? If so that seems to be a quote from the summary (eg the actual terms say that the phone must not have been cosmetically enhanced by adding gemstones). They also say that you must let them know if the phone is not connected to the network . I think that's a clumsy way of them putting it. But they don't say anything about the SIM, so you might make a case.

If its Arriva home insurance then there's a coverall "You must provide us with all the information we require" in that case your best bet would be to argue that its mot reasonable to request proof of usage in these circumstances as you weren't required to actually use the phone.

PHK

WelshPaul said:

Another thing, what if you have a phone with only eSIM support? Their terms and conditions would make such a device ineligible for payout as it clearly states SIM card.

Anyway, good luck with your claim. I would file a small claims case against them if they denied my claim. Well, provided the terms didn’t backup their verbal or written statements about requiring proof of usage! That being said, I would never take out insurance on a phone.

I would hesitate with small claims and insurance because there is a regulated complaints procedure that's free and legally binding.

If you go straight to court the court will not award costs (as there was a free route whose decisions are legally binding) so the OP will probably need to bear  those costs. 

If the OP complains to the insurance company, if they don't resolve things then the OP will get a leaflet from the FOS explaining about the difference between court and the ombudsman. Or you can see it on the FOS website. 

*Kat*

PHK said:

Is thuis PhoneCare? If so that seems to be a quote from the summary (eg the actual terms say that the phone must not have been cosmetically enhanced by adding gemstones). They also say that you must let them know if the phone is not connected to the network . I think that's a clumsy way of them putting it. But they don't say anything about the SIM, so you might make a case.

If its Arriva home insurance then there's a coverall "You must provide us with all the information we require" in that case your best bet would be to argue that its mot reasonable to request proof of usage in these circumstances as you weren't required to actually use the phone.

Thanks - it's First Directory - Aviva / Likewise policy: 

https://www.firstdirect.com/content/dam/wpb/fsdt/en/documents/pdf/mobile_phone_insurance_terms.pdf

Annoyingly, I can't copy and paste the policy. I feel that I've given them everything I can, there is no proof of usage that I can provide. From what I understand, I think if I went and bought 2 brand new iPhones from Apple, and I was robbed on the way from the Apple store to my house, with the phones not yet activated or used, then they would be covered under this policy. Let me know your thoughts? 

Grumpy_chap

This does not help the OP, but the "proof of use / active SIM card installed" does have some logic for an insurer.

Apparently, some people receive the *free* phones as part of an airtime package and then sell the phone via online marketplaces but then also report the phone as stolen so securing the insurance payment.  The insurers then block the device and the unsuspecting online buyer has suffered a loss.

There is a recent thread where a device mysteriously stopped working after around 6 months.  That was a CEX purchase and never defined certainly how and why the device stopped working, but the methodology around the sale of the used device and then the insurance claim is discussed:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6459816/bought-ipad-from-cex-advice-needed/p1

PHK

I think what they are referring to is point 18 under the section What we don't cover and the note at the end about information needed. Basically, if they ask you for something and you can't provide it then the claim isn't valid. 

But the FOS would require them to show that the request was reasonable in the circumstances.

I think you could reasonably state that Proof of Usage is not relevant in this case because the phone had not been used by you and there is nowhere that says you must have used the phone.


(These are unusual mobile phone terms and conditions as it leaves the insurer open to arguments about what is and is not relevant and from your point of view there's no clarity about what you will be asked for in the event of a claim. They are very old-fashioned in that sense and I'm not sure they'd be considered fair)

There's a decision on the FOS website DRN - 3456496 in slightly different circumstances (the SIM had been in the phone at some point) where they didn't uphold the complaint . I think the proof of usage is such a common request that the ombudsman didnt notice Aviva dont specifically mention it. But as you never used the phone, you might get a different outcome.