rain downpipe cut too short?

Niy

Hi, so we had a gutter repair guy round today to fix a couple of broken brackets and looked at a corner where the gutter joins the downpipe not draining properly despite have the gutters cleaned. He said it was to do with the angle of the gutter and the downpipe was push it up... so he said he needed to cut it shorter to allow the gutter to have more of a slope. However, by doing this, he's completed disloged the pipe further up. The downpipe was touching the soakaway but now it's not so I guess it was pulling it away as it was fine when he left but it became dislodged a few hours later.

He is coming back to repair it, but what can he do other than pushing it back up?

I think he might have also cut the downpipe too short, see pic. 2 questions I have:

1. Will it keep pulling the downpipe and disloging it further up

2. Now the downpipe isn't touching the soakaway, will the water spashback cause issues to the walls over time. The downpipe was touching the soakaway before he cut it.

stuart45

He might be better off taking the water from above onto the roof via a spreader.

flashg67

To me, the part above the highest roof needs routing round the tiles with new elbows etc to straighten up the angle of the next piece, which currently sits at an angle and looks to be straining the joint which is why it's popped out?
It does look a bit short - just checked mine - one is closer tan yours to the grid, and the other goes right into the grid via a circular cut out...

Niy

flashg67 said:

To me, the part above the highest roof needs routing round the tiles with new elbows etc to straighten up the angle of the next piece, which currently sits at an angle and looks to be straining the joint which is why it's popped out?
It does look a bit short - just checked mine - one is closer tan yours to the grid, and the other goes right into the grid via a circular cut out...

It was touching the soakaway and at a better angle (see first pic). Also, just noticed he guy drilled a hole into the downpipe. No, the drill hole can't have been there because he turned the pipe to a different angle... why would he do that?

ThisIsWeird

That screw is to try and prevent the DP slipping down inside it's clips; the clips are rarely enough to prevent this on their own, so the pipe really needs to be making some contact at the ground to keep it in place.
By cutting the DP short - so as to remove any upwards pressure on the gutter (which is what he reckoned was the problem - ie the gutter, at its outlet, was pushed upwards to slope away from the water flow direction, rather than being level or slightly downwards), the result is that the pipe is now not supported at the bottom from slipping downwards. So he fastened it using a screw instead.
Ok, I'm going to speculate that the incorrect slope (if that is what it is) in the gutter needs a bit more attention, with the actual gutter brackets needing adjusting downwards a tad. That'll require him getting right up there, but unclipping the outlet and resecuring it, say, a cm lower shouldn't be hard.
I've also seen folk securing the DP connections together using screws at that point to prevent them detaching - that would make more sense as the DP would actually be tugging gently downwards on the gutter. I'm not saying that's good practice, only that it would have made more sense!
Stuart's flow spreader looks a neat solution, but also won't solve the actual issue if the gutter outlet being presumably a touch too high. 

So, I'd suggest the solution is to take a spirit level of the gutter towards that outlet, and ensure that it is completely horizontal, or slightly downwards sloping. If it ain't, readjust the outlet bracket to make it so. Everything else is secondary.
At the very bottom, why not fit another cut-down 45 elbow to aim the flow straight down into the grill? Add a wee spacer under it, say 20mm or so, so that the successful flow can be seen.

Niy

ThisIsWeird said:

That screw is to try and prevent the DP slipping down inside it's clips; the clips are rarely enough to prevent this on their own, so the pipe really needs to be making some contact at the ground to keep it in place.
By cutting the DP short - so as to remove any upwards pressure on the gutter (which is what he reckoned was the problem - ie the gutter, at its outlet, was pushed upwards to slope away from the water flow direction, rather than being level or slightly downwards), the result is that the pipe is now not supported at the bottom from slipping downwards. So he fastened it using a screw instead.
Ok, I'm going to speculate that the incorrect slope (if that is what it is) in the gutter needs a bit more attention, with the actual gutter brackets needing adjusting downwards a tad. That'll require him getting right up there, but unclipping the outlet and resecuring it, say, a cm lower shouldn't be hard.
I've also seen folk securing the DP connections together using screws at that point to prevent them detaching - that would make more sense as the DP would actually be tugging gently downwards on the gutter. I'm not saying that's good practice, only that it would have made more sense!
Stuart's flow spreader looks a neat solution, but also won't solve the actual issue if the gutter outlet being presumably a touch too high. 

So, I'd suggest the solution is to take a spirit level of the gutter towards that outlet, and ensure that it is completely horizontal, or slightly downwards sloping. If it ain't, readjust the outlet bracket to make it so. Everything else is secondary.
At the very bottom, why not fit another cut-down 45 elbow to aim the flow straight down into the grill? Add a wee spacer under it, say 20mm or so, so that the successful flow can be seen.

He's come back, turned the downpipe more pointing toward to drain, and put another screw into the downpipe, so now ther is a hole in the dowpipe without a plug as it were. He's done the same with the dislodged bit further up instead of using sealant. Also, whatever he did or touched this 2nd time, he's now make the gutter leaking at the end, probably too much of a slope now. At this point, I don't know if I want him coming back the 3rd time if I am honest.

I don't want to be an !!!!!! to withhold payment but I feel like it's the only option to resolve this.

ThisIsWeird

When you reach the point with a tradesperson where you can legitimately claim you have no more confidence in their ability, then you are free to appoint an alternative and - if necessary - bill the first fellow for the remedial costs if they made matters worse.

In this case, however, by simply not paying him, you shouldn't be any worse off, so I would personally just leave it at that; terminate your 'contract', and find someone else. "Sorry, pal, but what you are doing is not sorting the problem, and I can't see that's going to change. I'm going to get someone else." Have they bought any parts for this that  you will continue to use? If so, offer/ insist on paying for this. 

The actual 'fix' will depend on the problem, but should surely start with checking the level of the gutter at that end = level or very slightly sloping down towards the outlet. Adjust if necessary. Then check the rubber seals of the outlet and stop-end. Then redo the downpipe as needed, ensuring full insertion of all parts, and a means of zero slippage.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Wouldn't be happy with screws in the downpipe. 

He's had one repeat performance so you'd now be entitled to a price reduction, typically the cost of someone else putting it right. 

I you haven't paid I wouldn't until finding out how much it's going to put right. 

Niy

I haven;t paid him, no. I have asked him what will he want to do and he said "add a bit of gutter to the back of it to stop it flowing over the back and an end on the downpipe if it's needed". So basically sounds like more patch up with to cover the fact that he's cur the downpipe too short. He's offered to come back again but I think I will just say I will get someone else in to fix it. He's added a couple of brackets to the gutter at the front of the house as they were broken, so I will pay for that, but I won't want to pay for him to keep coming back every few days to potentially keep adding omre screws to the system.

stuart45

I've seen this problem quite a few times when a downpipe runs directly into the gutter and overflows. It's better run into the roof. If the volume of water is too much for the gutter a deep flow could be used.

Niy

It turns out this guy is both a cowboy and a thug. I messaged him today to say I will pay for the 2 brackets he added to the front of the house, but I will find someone else to fix the other problem. He said OK and sent me an amended invoice with 50% added to the parts that he did, so instead of paying £80 for the 2 brackets (even that's overpriced), he wanted £120, I asked him why and he said 1-3 fixes are £60 each 4+ are £40 each. I said he never told me this and he said he'd be happy to offer £100, I said £90 and we call it a day, he then threatened to come back to remove the new bracketsand put back the old brackets. Yeah right as if he's kept the old clips. I was going to aruge but on balance, I didn't want to risk him causing intentional damage to my house so I said £100 and do not come anywhere near my house again.

I totally understand it's within a tradeperson's right to remove work they have done if the customer doesn't pay, but in this instance, I was happy to pay the agreed price at £40 per a fix, so in my mind, I should only have to pay £80. Also, there was no way he could have given back the cut off part of my "original" downpipe and undo the holes (yes he can fill them or whatever but not the same), so yeah, he is a thug.

Also, in his first visit, there was also an issus with the gutter on the side, he looked at the whole system and said £160 to fix everything. I said OK and let him get on with it. When he completed, he said he didn't do anything to the side, I asked why and he said, it was never included in the £160 quote. I said he said it was, he said no, so from that point, I already felt it was take a chance, but he's already done the work and I said to myself, if it's done well, 2 fixes at £160 is expensive, but whatever... can you imagine how many people are bullied into paying more than they should be this thug?