Parent moving in - bills contributions and 'surplus income'

sorethumbs1992

Thanks @Keep_pedalling

I will get on with the two different LPA's - I had initially applied for them but made the mistake of using Dad's solicitor as the certificate provider.  And then found out they wanted £600 each for doing it - yes how dumb was I to put them down on it.

Thanks for all your replies its been very good to learn some new things and gain a bit of knowledge.  Hopefully my Dad will spend his days with me and not have to contemplate care.

I did find out more info on the whole LA situation of chasing 'deprivation of assets' after private care has exhausted funds.

Before the Care Act 2014 came into effect, there was a six month limit on Social Services’ ability to take action against the recipient of a gift. The Care Act abolished this limitation and the fact that the gift was over six months ago does not mean that it is not classed as deprivation of assets. As your mother had care needs at the time of the gift, then it is very likely that Social Services will say it was a deliberate deprivation of assets and refuse to help with her care fees.

And - if at the time of any gift it looked like care would be required in the near future...

The rules governing gifting and local authority financial assessments are not the same as the Inheritance Tax rules.

Unfortunately, there is no deprivation of assets “7-year rule” when it comes to paying for care and the Council can go back as far as they wish when investigating deprivation of assets.

So I'll bear that in mind 

elsien

Although you’re helping your dad, obviously it is his power-of-attorney and his application and completely up to him what he puts in it.
What my mother found helpful was to look at a printed blank copy I had downloaded for her, and then go through it a bit at a time, writing her thoughts down before we discussed it.
 That way I’ve got a clear understanding of what her wishes would be if she lost capacity (particularly relevant for the health one) and we were able to talk through some of the things she put in that were slightly unworkable.

Mojisola

sorethumbs1992 said:

I think I was confusing myself in thinking LA's would be scrutinising assets or gifts immediately but of course any funds would pay for private care home first.
If that were to happen and he had enough for 5 or 6 years privately and then the funds for private care home ran out I guess LA would then have to take over care.

When Dad was assessed for care, it was clear that, once the house was sold, he would be self-funding.  The council's interest in his financials stopped there.  They weren't interested in what he had been spending over the years.

badmemory

Don't forget to have POAs for yourself too.  I've had them for 7 years now.  I would DIY the POAs again as they are very straightforward unless you choose to make them complicated but would always have a solicitor to draw up my will.  Really they are like a form of insurance something that you hopefully will never need to use.

sorethumbs1992

Mojisola said:

sorethumbs1992 said:

I think I was confusing myself in thinking LA's would be scrutinising assets or gifts immediately but of course any funds would pay for private care home first.
If that were to happen and he had enough for 5 or 6 years privately and then the funds for private care home ran out I guess LA would then have to take over care.

When Dad was assessed for care, it was clear that, once the house was sold, he would be self-funding.  The council's interest in his financials stopped there.  They weren't interested in what he had been spending over the years.

This may be insensitive of me to ask.  Your dad may still be with you.  Is he still self funding or did he exhaust his own funds.  Did/have the LA ever get involved. I'm guessing they didn't.  I'm just thinking if they do end up having to step in, that's where spending history gets looked at

Spendless

Mojisola said:

sorethumbs1992 said:

I think I was confusing myself in thinking LA's would be scrutinising assets or gifts immediately but of course any funds would pay for private care home first.
If that were to happen and he had enough for 5 or 6 years privately and then the funds for private care home ran out I guess LA would then have to take over care.

When Dad was assessed for care, it was clear that, once the house was sold, he would be self-funding.  The council's interest in his financials stopped there.  They weren't interested in what he had been spending over the years.

How long was in care for and what age was he at the time he went in? When my Nan went in (the month before her 91st birthday) she was then in the care home for another 8 years (dying earlier this year the month before her 99th birthday). At the point she went in we (the family) didn't believe she's make it till that Christmas, definitely not  for a further 8 years. Not that she'd given anything away anyway prior to going in, but at the point she'd died most of the money from her property being sold had gone and she was in-between the 14,250 and 23,250 where the LA contributes towards care. I could see that being taken into account perhaps if you then live a long life. If you're 96 at the point you go in and have funds for a further 15 years I doubt they'll be interested though.

Mojisola

sorethumbs1992 said:

This may be insensitive of me to ask.  Your dad may still be with you.  Is he still self funding or did he exhaust his own funds.  Did/have the LA ever get involved. I'm guessing they didn't.  I'm just thinking if they do end up having to step in, that's where spending history gets looked at

No worries - Dad was only in care for about a year.

We did think about all these possible scenarios - it pays to be prepared for all eventualities.

I think if he had lived for years after going in and used up his capital, the council would have struggled to investigate what he had done with his money from decades before.  They would have to prove that he had given money away in order to avoid care home fees and, as he would have been a self-funder for years, that would be impossible.

They may have tried to get him to move to a cheaper care home but we would have argued that would have been detrimental to his well-being and previous cases like that in our area have resulted in the person staying in their care home.

martinbuckley

It would be reasonable to ask for the 25% Council tax and any extra use increase in your utility bills, plus a share of the food bill.  All the utility standing charges, insurance etc would be 100% yours whether he was there or not.

Mojisola

martinbuckley said:

It would be reasonable to ask for the 25% Council tax and any extra use increase in your utility bills, plus a share of the food bill.  All the utility standing charges, insurance etc would be 100% yours whether he was there or not.

I would hope the father would want to split the bills equally.

The OP is going to be sharing their house and no doubt doing a certain amount of caring.

Father has good savings and has been paying his way in his own house up to now.

badmemory

I certainly think that if yoour father is looking to pass a certain amount over then to do it via paying a reasonable share of the bills would be a way of doing it that could not be criticised.