Potential Boundary Dispute, Resolution tips and Impact on Selling

CSI_Yorkshire

user1977 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Sapen1518 said:

@eddddy thanks, you've picked up on a lot of the nuance of this situation eg the lease variation and the instruction of work

The freeholder wears two hats because they also own a flat. Much of this year we've held fortnightly meetings to discuss a number of maintainence projects. Each owner has taken the lead on a different area to help with the burden. I have been the one primarily dealing with the fence because part of it, from my front door down the access way to my garden, is exclusively mine. We had 2 seperate invoices, with the communal part of the fence being split 4 ways. The other invoice is just mine.

The part of the fence that the fencers moved, decreasing width, is the communal section because the error started from the alignment with a new front gate post.

I instructed the fencers, with agreement from all parties, including the consent of the neighbour to access his land. I did question the width when the fencers were onsite and still incomplete,  feeling it was narrower, they denied it had changed. When I reviewed the before and after photos it was really clear and that's when they admitted their error. 

I appreciate your perspective that my issue is possibly with the freeholder rather than directly with the neighbour. The freeholder has asked that I resolve it though as she is "ambivalent". 

You record all this, and as soon as the neighbour makes any noise or move or threat to touch the fence, you call the police.

The police? You expect the cops to get involved in conveyancing? It's a civil dispute (unless there's actually a threat of a breach of the peace). The police have better stuff to do with their time.

A civil dispute where, as far as we know, the owners of both properties don't seen to think any dispute actually exists.

Jonboy_1984

Does the freehold title plan, either for your building or the neighbours, show any dimensions anywhere?

ThisIsWeird

user1977 said:

The police? You expect the cops to get involved in conveyancing? It's a civil dispute (unless there's actually a threat of a breach of the peace). The police have better stuff to do with their time.

Of course not. But they should get involved in 'criminal property damage' and/or threatening and/or intimidating behaviour, which is what this would be. (The OP should begin recording any future contact with this neighbour.)
They won't get involved in determining whose fence it is, but will almost certainly say, "C&D - do not touch or damage anything, or use intimidating or threatening language - sort this out the correct legal way IF you truly believe you are in the right."
They will usually also briefly look and listen to both sides, and judge whether something is patently 'obvious'. In this case, the independent 3rd party - the fencers - would be able to confirm the OP's position; "Yes, that was the line of the original fence, and - yes, we messed up when we put in the new one. We are trying to fix our mistake, but this neighbour is demanding to keep the new line, I guess because it gives them more land! He used...(insert examples of intimidating behaviour) to prevent us sorting our error..."

ThisIsWeird

Of course, if the OP suspects or knows that the new line is actually the 'correct' one, and this 'mistake' is actually righting a wrong, then they should suck it up, and not try and get what is not theirs - as they claim the neighbour is doing.

eddddy

ThisIsWeird said:

Of course not. But they should get involved in 'criminal property damage' and/or threatening and/or intimidating behaviour, which is what this would be.

...

They will usually also briefly look and listen to both sides, and judge whether something is patently 'obvious'. In this case, the independent 3rd party - the fencers - would be able to confirm the OP's position; "Yes, that was the line of the original fence, and - yes, we messed up when we put in the new one. We are trying to fix our mistake, but this neighbour is demanding to keep the new line, I guess because it gives them more land! He used...(insert examples of intimidating behaviour) to prevent us sorting our error..."

I think it's unlikely that a fencing contractor would get involved in that. As the OP has explained, not surprisingly, the fencing contractor decided to walk away when the 'trouble' started...

Sapen1518 said:

The fence company left, intimidated and confused, without correcting their error for fear of the neighbour.

I suspect that the fencing contractor's position will be that they won't come back unless the OP can assure them that they can get on with the job without being intimidated by the neighbour.

I think most reputable contractors will steer well clear of getting involved in any neighbour disputes.

sheramber

has the fence always been in the original position or could  it  have been originally closer to your property  but was moved back when the gas meters were installed to allow more room for access.
Now, the neighbour is claiming his land back.

The OP has not indicated he has proof of the correct position for the fence.  Only that the new position inconveniences him.

Have you checked the neighbour's deeds to see if the boundary line is recognisable?

Do any of the long term owners know  whether the fence has been there for the 25 years that they have lived there?

Sapen1518

Jonboy_1984 said:

Does the freehold title plan, either for your building or the neighbours, show any dimensions anywhere?

No unfortunately not

Sapen1518

sheramber said:

has the fence always been in the original position or could  it  have been originally closer to your property  but was moved back when the gas meters were installed to allow more room for access.
Now, the neighbour is claiming his land back.

The OP has not indicated he has proof of the correct position for the fence.  Only that the new position inconveniences him.

Have you checked the neighbour's deeds to see if the boundary line is recognisable?

Do any of the long term owners know  whether the fence has been there for the 25 years that they have lived there?

The neighbour has not provided any evidence of a historic dispute, he has also owned his home for approx 25 years so all owners at my property and the neighbour know one another. To their knowledge, this has never been an issue and the boundary and fence has never been an issue until now. 

Sapen1518

@ThisIsWeird we do have photo evidence to show the error. The fencers jack hammered away part of a cement slab and that accounts for the almost 2 feet we've lost. As the fence is long, it gradually corrects towards the back garden so its not the whole way along however it has narrowed where the gas meters are so has reduced the communal accessway, through which I get to my front door. 

Its a stressful situation and the neighbour bombards us with lengthy threatening emails about suing us so we'd prefer avoiding a confrontational situation.

His argument is baseless, there is no evidence and all his messages in the lead up to having the work done were very amicable and in no way indicated a past problem. He has currently benefited from the errors so it is truly baffling why he has taken this approach.

 

CSI_Yorkshire

Sapen1518 said:

we do have photo evidence to show the error.

You have photographic evidence that the fence now is not in the same place as it was.

This is not evidence that the new position is an error.