Argos or Lenovo

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Did you buy online or in store OP?

If online can you link to the product please? 

screech_78

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Such a shame trading standards doesn't put a stop to this behaviour of fobbing customers off to the manufacturer.

Sometimes though that’s the process during the warranty. We’ll direct customers to the manufacturer at times if they have an 18 month old appliance as it’s still under warranty. If invoking their rights through CRA, then they’re going to have a much more difficult time. Very, very few customers even mention CRA until you tell them something they don’t want to hear. Warranties can often provide a much speedier resolution. It’s not fobbing off. 

tightauldgit

screech_78 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Such a shame trading standards doesn't put a stop to this behaviour of fobbing customers off to the manufacturer.

Sometimes though that’s the process during the warranty. We’ll direct customers to the manufacturer at times if they have an 18 month old appliance as it’s still under warranty. If invoking their rights through CRA, then they’re going to have a much more difficult time. Very, very few customers even mention CRA until you tell them something they don’t want to hear. Warranties can often provide a much speedier resolution. It’s not fobbing off. 

It certainly can be fobbing off though. At the end of the day people just want their thing fixed and shouldn't have to know about the difference between warranties and CRA rights or any of that to get good service but sadly they sometimes do. 

I certainly wouldn't accept being told to make any warranty claim unless a) the retailer acknowledged it as an attempt to repair under the CRA and b) I was sure that going down the warranty route wasn't going to diminish my rights later (which it sometimes at least appears to do) 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

screech_78 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Such a shame trading standards doesn't put a stop to this behaviour of fobbing customers off to the manufacturer.

Sometimes though that’s the process during the warranty. We’ll direct customers to the manufacturer at times if they have an 18 month old appliance as it’s still under warranty. If invoking their rights through CRA, then they’re going to have a much more difficult time. Very, very few customers even mention CRA until you tell them something they don’t want to hear. Warranties can often provide a much speedier resolution. It’s not fobbing off. 

I agree on both points bolded but ultimately customers don't really need to mention the CRA, the requirements under it are implied terms of the contract, when a customer contacts a trader to say "my washing machine broke" they are effectively stating the contract has been breached and clearly the purpose of that contact is to remedy that breach. 

Under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulation both actions and omissions are classed as misleading if they cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise

A “transactional decision” means any decision taken by a consumer, whether it is to act or to refrain from acting, concerning—

(a)whether, how and on what terms to purchase, make payment in whole or in part for, retain or dispose of a product; or

(b)whether, how and on what terms to exercise a contractual right in relation to a product.

Anything implied by the trader, either through omission or statement, that the consumer wasn't entitled to a remedy from the trader for a breach of contract which is an implied right under the CRA could be classed as an offence. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Okell said:

I may not have made myself clear.

What did you tell them the first time you went back to Argos, not the second time after it had been repaired?

Looking at random Lenovo products on the Argos website the descriptions say 1 year manufacturer guarantee", if OP purchased online with a product page stating this (or in store if catalogues also state such) then the goods did not conform immediately due the warranty issue. 

Whilst the warranty itself is in addition to consumer rights, it's existence where stated being as advertised is covered by consumer rights.

Argos already had one repair* attempt back in May when they fobbed OP off to handed OP over to their third party agent Lenovo to get the warranty reset. 

Any problems after that mean final right to reject/price reduction. Less than 6 months so taken unless Argos wish to demonstrate otherwise on their time. 

OP bypassing Argos completely on the 28th July is academic.  

*“repair” in relation to goods that do not conform to a contract, means making them conform

Okell said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Such a shame trading standards doesn't put a stop to this behaviour ...

I started training as a Trading Standards Inspector nearly 40 years ago.   

The phrase "chocolate teapot" comes to mind.

I hope they've imptoved since then, but I doubt it...

Under staffed is certainly a problem, but they did take Halfords to a higher court to seek clarification on a very specific point, you'd think they could at least have a quiet word with some of these companies to discourage such behaviour. 

screech_78

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

screech_78 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Such a shame trading standards doesn't put a stop to this behaviour of fobbing customers off to the manufacturer.

Sometimes though that’s the process during the warranty. We’ll direct customers to the manufacturer at times if they have an 18 month old appliance as it’s still under warranty. If invoking their rights through CRA, then they’re going to have a much more difficult time. Very, very few customers even mention CRA until you tell them something they don’t want to hear. Warranties can often provide a much speedier resolution. It’s not fobbing off. 

I agree on both points bolded but ultimately customers don't really need to mention the CRA, the requirements under it are implied terms of the contract, when a customer contacts a trader to say "my washing machine broke" they are effectively stating the contract has been breached and clearly the purpose of that contact is to remedy that breach. 

Under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulation both actions and omissions are classed as misleading if they cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise

A “transactional decision” means any decision taken by a consumer, whether it is to act or to refrain from acting, concerning—

(a)whether, how and on what terms to purchase, make payment in whole or in part for, retain or dispose of a product; or

(b)whether, how and on what terms to exercise a contractual right in relation to a product.

Anything implied by the trader, either through omission or statement, that the consumer wasn't entitled to a remedy from the trader for a breach of contract which is an implied right under the CRA could be classed as an offence. 

I honestly agree with you. 

I was just pointing out that sometimes it’s easier to go down the warranty route as a warranty can at times provide a more favourable outcome. 

tightauldgit

Dorrian said:

So quick update, the saga has dragged on & I am no nearer to having a working laptop. Argos sent me to the supplier who sent me back to Argos & so on & so forth, in the end Argos offered me a replacement which I accepted & was told the supplier would be in touch that was almost 3 weeks ago. Unfortunately the supplier has not contacted me to arrange the replacement. So now it's a letter of complaint & giving Argos 7 days to reply & 14 days to replace the laptop, I also asked if they were a member of or would use Alternative Dispute Resolution so I will await the reply. I have to say Citizens Advice dedicated consumer help page is fantastic.

Sounds weird. If Argos have offered a replacement they should be providing it, not the manufacturer. If it's a currently stocked model it should be fairly easy for them to give you one from inventory and take the old one off you. 

RefluentBeans

Dorrian said:

So quick update, the saga has dragged on & I am no nearer to having a working laptop. Argos sent me to the supplier who sent me back to Argos & so on & so forth, in the end Argos offered me a replacement which I accepted & was told the supplier would be in touch that was almost 3 weeks ago. Unfortunately the supplier has not contacted me to arrange the replacement. So now it's a letter of complaint & giving Argos 7 days to reply & 14 days to replace the laptop, I also asked if they were a member of or would use Alternative Dispute Resolution so I will await the reply. I have to say Citizens Advice dedicated consumer help page is fantastic.

This is incredibly odd. What did Argos actually say? If Argos offered you a replacement why didn’t Argos deliver the replacement themselves?

Are you sure that’s what was said? It sounds more like they kicked the can back over to Lenovo and said to you that the supplier should replace it, whilst emailing Lenovo to tell them there’s a warranty issue. 

Who has the laptop now? Argos, Lenovo or You? If a replacement is in the pipe works you shouldn’t have the laptop realistically. Either Argos or Lenovo should (depending on who is issuing the replacement). 

Did Argos offer you a replacement in writing or verbally? I just have a strong feeling that Argos will have said it’s Lenovos issue and they should replace the laptop. Not actually offering you a replacement.