EU flight compensation

IhateEuropcar

I live in Almaty in Kazakhstan. Due to civil unrest in January 2022 the international airport was closed for a period of several weeks. When the situation died down and the curfew was lifted, the international airport re-opened and various international airlines resumed their services such as Turkish, Wizz, FlyDubai...etc However Lufthansa, with who my family and I had tickets, did not resumed services for over a month after the airport reponed and other international airlines returned. During this time my family and I were stuck in France, which at first was admittedly fortunate, but after the return to normality was very frustrating. 

My question is can I claim the EU compensation for delayed flights for this? The initial situation was out of Lufthansa's hands, I accept that, but I was then stuck in France for a month longer than i would have been as a customer of another airline and that was Lufthansa's choice as all other international flights had long resumed (by weeks or a month in some cases).

Thanks

eskbanker

The EU compensation rules relate to delays or cancellations of a specific flight, rather than resumption of an entire schedule, so you might have a case if you had a confirmed booking on a flight on a particular date and it was delayed or cancelled due to reasons within the airline's control, but that doesn't sound like the situation you're describing?

IhateEuropcar

I changed my return flight when Lufthansa weren't flying (and others were). They offered me a refund so I could book with another carrier, but that would have not at all been at the same price, class, conditions...etc

eskbanker

IhateEuropcar said:

I changed my return flight when Lufthansa weren't flying (and others were). They offered me a refund so I could book with another carrier, but that would have not at all been at the same price, class, conditions...etc

If you had a confirmed booking on a flight and Lufthansa cancelled it, then they probably weren't obliged to pay compensation under article 7 of the regulations (assuming extraordinary circumstances) but their obligations under article 8 would have been to offer you a choice between a refund or rerouting (with another carrier if necessary, at no extra cost).  I presume you didn't insist on being rerouted via another carrier - did you accept the refund, or just wait until they restarted flying?  Either way round, it seems unlikely that there'd be any mileage in trying to pursue this 18 months later!

IhateEuropcar

My question is, was there really extraordinary circumstances if the airport was in fact open and other international carriers flying? My flight was supposed to be during this time, not when the airport was closed. That makes it Lufthansa's choice rather than circumstances beyond their control There is a six year window for claims.

eskbanker

IhateEuropcar said:

My question is, was there really extraordinary circumstances if the airport was in fact open and other international carriers flying? My flight was supposed to be during this time, not when the airport was closed. That makes it Lufthansa's choice rather than circumstances beyond their control

What was the date of the flight that was cancelled, when did they notify you of its cancellation, and did they offer any explanation for cancelling?

IhateEuropcar said:

There is a six year window for claims.

Refunding/rerouting and compensation are two entirely separate matters, and my reference to timescale was more to do with my (unanswered) question about the former, rather than the compensation point (where extraordinary circumstances are relevant), in response to your comment:

IhateEuropcar said:

They offered me a refund so I could book with another carrier, but that would have not at all been at the same price, class, conditions...etc

bagand96

IhateEuropcar said:

My question is, was there really extraordinary circumstances if the airport was in fact open and other international carriers flying? My flight was supposed to be during this time, not when the airport was closed. That makes it Lufthansa's choice rather than circumstances beyond their control There is a six year window for claims.

Lufthansa could have been basing their decision on instructions/advice/intelligence of the German Government or aviation authorities.

When Malaysian MH17 was shot down over Ukraine many airlines were already avoiding Ukrainian airspace, some others weren't. Granted it's a different situation but it just shows that just because airports/airspace are open, it doesn't automatically mean every airline will or should fly.

IhateEuropcar

eskbanker said:

What was the date of the flight that was cancelled, when did they notify you of its cancellation, and did they offer any explanation for cancelling?

The original flight was for Jan 19th 2022, the changed flight was for Feb 06, I didn't end up flying until Feb 28. No reason was offered. 

IhateEuropcar

bagand96 said: Lufthansa could have been basing their decision on instructions/advice/intelligence of the German Government or aviation authorities. When Malaysian MH17 was shot down over Ukraine many airlines were already avoiding Ukrainian airspace, some others weren't. Granted it's a different situation but it just shows that just because airports/airspace are open, it doesn't automatically mean every airline will or should fly.

I don't imagine they "could have been basing their decision...", I think they were without doubt taking into consideration all available info and when making their decision when to renew flights, including their bottom line! Airlines are often loss-making in the winter months, making their money in the summer with higher occupancy rates on their aircraft. The benefits of consolidating all their passengers onto full flights later on would have undoubtedly been something they would have taken into consideration too!

Comparing this to the tragedy of MH17 is not just a "different situation" it's totally different. 

eskbanker

IhateEuropcar said:

eskbanker said:

What was the date of the flight that was cancelled, when did they notify you of its cancellation, and did they offer any explanation for cancelling?

The original flight was for Jan 19th 2022, the changed flight was for Feb 06, I didn't end up flying until Feb 28. No reason was offered. 

So it sounds like there were two separate cancellations, one for the 19 January flight, which you presumably accept as being due to airport closure, and the second being a flight that had been scheduled for 6 February, which is after some airlines had recommenced services?  When did they notify you of the 6 February flight being cancelled?

IhateEuropcar said:

bagand96 said: Lufthansa could have been basing their decision on instructions/advice/intelligence of the German Government or aviation authorities. When Malaysian MH17 was shot down over Ukraine many airlines were already avoiding Ukrainian airspace, some others weren't. Granted it's a different situation but it just shows that just because airports/airspace are open, it doesn't automatically mean every airline will or should fly.

I don't imagine they "could have been basing their decision...", I think they were without doubt taking into consideration all available info and when making their decision when to renew flights, including their bottom line! Airlines are often loss-making in the winter months, making their money in the summer with higher occupancy rates on their aircraft. The benefits of consolidating all their passengers onto full flights later on would have undoubtedly been something they would have taken into consideration too!

Comparing this to the tragedy of MH17 is not just a "different situation" it's totally different. 

The purpose of the comparison was obviously to highlight that airlines make their own decisions, often supported by national regulators, etc, about conditions under which they're prepared to fly, i.e. the fact that some airlines felt it was safe to fly from Almaty doesn't oblige all to follow suit.  If Lufthansa didn't do so, and haven't explained why the flight was cancelled, you're just speculating that this was for financial reasons, but if you're convinced that it wasn't extraordinary circumstances then all you can do is to submit a claim and escalate it if they reject it.

bagand96

IhateEuropcar said:

bagand96 said: Lufthansa could have been basing their decision on instructions/advice/intelligence of the German Government or aviation authorities. When Malaysian MH17 was shot down over Ukraine many airlines were already avoiding Ukrainian airspace, some others weren't. Granted it's a different situation but it just shows that just because airports/airspace are open, it doesn't automatically mean every airline will or should fly.

I don't imagine they "could have been basing their decision...", I think they were without doubt taking into consideration all available info and when making their decision when to renew flights, including their bottom line! Airlines are often loss-making in the winter months, making their money in the summer with higher occupancy rates on their aircraft. The benefits of consolidating all their passengers onto full flights later on would have undoubtedly been something they would have taken into consideration too!

Comparing this to the tragedy of MH17 is not just a "different situation" it's totally different. 

It's only totally different if one has decided or proved that Lufthansa made a commercial decision.  The reason I felt there's a comparison is your observation that other airlines had resumed flights.

None of us know for sure why Lufthansa didn't resume flights, I was just suggesting there may be more to it.