shared parking fine, worth chasing landowner?

Edd12

Hi all,

I've been lurking here for a while and reading some of the very helpful information regarding fines.

I've had 4 fines for parking on my partner's shared parking outside their flat after a parking company (PCM) was brought in to "manage" the parking. Before this there were no restrictions and the flat was let with access to a "single parking space" with not restrictions on it and also no parking company managing it. The tenancy agreement is vague and generic and mentions "parking if applicable". I've got my NTKs and sent my (rejected) appeals adapting the boilerplate response - just awaiting the LBC now.

I'm currently following the newbies thread - trying to complain to the freeholder about the company but I'm having difficulty trying to actually get their information. I tried the managing agent who confirmed they were the ones who contracted the company but refuse to do anything as "its a contract and we have no control over the parking company" and basically said speak to the parking company. Also contacted the EA and they are apparently trying to speak to the landlord and get something sorted but this has been going on for weeks now and not much has changed.

Is it worth persisting with the complaint to the landlord/landowner or just wait for the LBCs?

fisherjim

I tried the managing agent who confirmed they were the ones who contracted the company but refuse to do anything as "its a contract and we have no control over the parking company" and basically said speak to the parking company.

The managing agents are useless who gave them the right to enter into a contract with a scammer, and what sort of company enters into a contract where they have no control over the contractor, what a bunch of Muppets.

Why were PCM brought in anyway were the tenants even consulted?

Yes I would continue to pressurise the landowner/landlord and the stupid MA and make the latter's life as miserable as yours will be with scammers on site.

It's not a fine by the way, what exactly does the tenancy agreement say about parking or indeed not say about parking?

What were the PCN's for exactly?

jlfrs01

I will leave it for others more knowledgable to comment on the process/legal side of things but I'm curious to know how the parking is managed - do owners/occupiers have to provide number plate details or have a permit displayed? 

Edd12

@fisherjim I don't really know why they were brought in - there was never an issue with parking and always seemed to be a multiple spaces available when I stayed over/visited. Tenants weren't consulted, the only thing they had was a generic letter put in the letter box for all the flats saying when enforcement was coming in and how each flat is eligible for a single permit (nothing about visitors). Further contact with the parking company has resulted in multiple versions of this letter being sent to us in emails that are all different to the first (and only) one we received in the letter box - they even have "REVISED" in the file name which I found funny.

My 'tickets' were for not showing a permit in the windscreen ( @jlfrs01 ) - getting a permit requires proof of insurance and v5c to match the address of the flat, obviously I do not live there so they cannot get a permit on my behalf. My partner doesn't have a car so they doesn't use a space. They have a silly visitor permit system where you get 40 hours each month via an app (£20 a year to use the app) OR you can buy 24-hourly physical visitor permits but you can't have a both and once you have selected one you cannot use the other. Both these facts we found out after I was issued a ticket and revised versions of those letters mentioned earlier were sent via email.

Relevant passages from the agreement: 

"The Premises References to the “Premises” include reference to any part or parts of the Premises and the
boundaries of the same together with the garden, garage and parking space (if applicable)"

9.23 Vehicles and Conveyances
9.23.1 To park private vehicle(s) only at the Premises.
9.23.2 To park in the space allocated to the Premises, if the Tenant is allocated a car parking space.
9.23.3 To park in the garage or the driveway to the Premises if applicable.
9.23.4 To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and cleaning of any
spillage caused by a vehicle of the Tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
9.23.5 To remove all vehicles belonging to the Tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the Tenancy.
9.23.6 Not to park any vehicle at the Premises that is not in road worthy condition and fully taxed.
9.23.7 Not to bring any motorbike, scooter, or bicycle into any residential part of the Premises.

The flat was advertised by the EA as coming with a parking space and the MA has confirmed to me in writing that none of the flats have an "allocated space" so it is all shared. The flat is also just going back on the market as my partner is moving soon and it is being advertised again with a parking space but I still have to deal with these bills.

I parked there because I found it outrageous that we were paying for something that is now being restricted by a scammer company.

Coupon-mad

They aren't bills. You won't be paying.

Read this thread from start to finish to learn about PCM, their rogue traders appearance on Watchdog, and how to reply to the managing agents:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6460492/on-duty-nhs-community-nurse/p1

Edd12

Coupon-mad said:

They aren't bills. You won't be paying.

Read this thread from start to finish to learn about PCM, their rogue traders appearance on Watchdog, and how to reply to the managing agents:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6460492/on-duty-nhs-community-nurse/p1

Thanks, I have read the thread and will send them a modified combination of things you wrote there but judging from the 'senior manager' that I spoke to on the phone who said I she did not have a boss, I doubt it will change their minds.

With regards to counterclaim, is this something that is actually possible? PCM have !!!!!! me off so much with their attitude that I would love to take them to court over the distress and anxiety that this situation has caused my partner and myself. Wouldn't mind throwing in the MAs too with them but I know you can't jus take someone to court over that.

Also, I'm assuming if it does go to court that the EA/Landlord will be involved too?

Coupon-mad

Also, I'm assuming if it does go to court that the EA/Landlord will be involved too? 

Nope.  Just the parking firm with a hired 'legal' roboclaim aggressive bulk litigator.  No checks of evidence, you will be a number on a list.

That's partly why these are so easy to defend!

Umkomaas

With regards to counterclaim, is this something that is actually possible?

Only when PCM issue a claim against you. For what reason are you considering counterclaiming?  Counterclaim success is as rare as hens' teeth in private parking cases. 

Le_Kirk

Your partner should write to the managing agent and ask when, not if, a ballot of tenants/leaseholders/freeholders was carried out and what were the results.  You/your partner could refer to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987

Fruitcake

Le_Kirk said:

Your partner should write to the managing agent and ask when, not if, a ballot of tenants/leaseholders/freeholders was carried out and what were the results.  You/your partner could refer to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987

... and landlords.

This is a mandatory requirement of the L & T Act, Part IV, Section 37. A ballot must be held before a lease can lawfully be carried, and only if the required number of votes in favour are achieved without the minimum number of votes against being reached.

Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (legislation.gov.uk)

This is why the leaseholder must ask when (not if) the ballot was carried out that varied their existing lease.

Edd12

Le_Kirk said:

Your partner should write to the managing agent and ask when, not if, a ballot of tenants/leaseholders/freeholders was carried out and what were the results.  You/your partner could refer to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987

I'm not quite sure I understand this - does the freeholder of the land need to ballot the leaseholders (landlords in this case) and tenants etc in order to put in parking on the land they control?