Discrmination because you don't work in a recognised professions that can countersign passport photo

Andy_L

35har1old said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Flugelhorn said:

Interestingly doctors were taken off the list some years back - can still do it for friends / staff etc but not for patients. Apparently just because someone is registered at a practice doesn't mean you would identify them from a photo / know who they are. some GPs were sent unnamed photos by the passport office and asked to "name this person" and of course they often can't.
It was actually a lot easier when they stopped this and you didn't have to decide if you knew them well enough - particularly when one parents brought all the family's forms in and didn't actually bring the relevant people

According to a friend, who's a Doctor, it was only after a long petition that they were removed. Their explanation was that the £30 to sign a photo just wasn't worth the arguments as to why there was a charge etc 

Currently I would find a counter signing person difficult  to find 
Haven't had any building work done recently do my own windows and gardening 
Most will charge a fee how is that a good idea 
Haven't met a Funeral Director 
Only person I no that would countersign is a librarian but asfar as I can see he is not on the list for passport applications 

They would be a Local Government Officer (unless its an outsourced service). They might also be a member of the Library professional institution
https://www.cilip.org.uk/

MattMattMattUK

tightauldgit said:

MattMattMattUK said:

35har1old said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Flugelhorn said:

Interestingly doctors were taken off the list some years back - can still do it for friends / staff etc but not for patients. Apparently just because someone is registered at a practice doesn't mean you would identify them from a photo / know who they are. some GPs were sent unnamed photos by the passport office and asked to "name this person" and of course they often can't.
It was actually a lot easier when they stopped this and you didn't have to decide if you knew them well enough - particularly when one parents brought all the family's forms in and didn't actually bring the relevant people

According to a friend, who's a Doctor, it was only after a long petition that they were removed. Their explanation was that the £30 to sign a photo just wasn't worth the arguments as to why there was a charge etc 

Currently I would find a counter signing person difficult  to find 
Haven't had any building work done recently do my own windows and gardening 
Most will charge a fee how is that a good idea 
Haven't met a Funeral Director 
Only person I no that would countersign is a librarian but asfar as I can see he is not on the list for passport applications 

What about family though, does one of them own/run a limited company and/or is VAT registered? 

Direct family can't sign for you though. 

I'm also in this situation to be honest, luckily I already have my passport but being pretty socially isolated and having been self-employed for the past few years if I had to get a passport document signed I think I'd struggle. 

Sorry, I initially wrote friends and family, them meant to delete family and deleted friends instead, I obviously have not drunk enough coffee this morning!

WYSPECIAL

theoretica said:

I wonder in practice if, or how often, an ID verification is turned down because the person signing it does not have a sufficiently recognised profession or community standing? Or does the list just put people off from trying?

Be interesting to know how often the person signing to verify identity is actually contacted.
I've never been contacted about any I've signed. 
A friend who signed my application for a child passport for my daughter once got a phone call from the Irish Embassy and asked a few questions, but that's the only example I've ever come across anyone being contacted.

MattMattMattUK

WYSPECIAL said:

theoretica said:

I wonder in practice if, or how often, an ID verification is turned down because the person signing it does not have a sufficiently recognised profession or community standing? Or does the list just put people off from trying?

Be interesting to know how often the person signing to verify identity is actually contacted.
I've never been contacted about any I've signed. 
A friend who signed my application for a child passport for my daughter once got a phone call from the Irish Embassy and asked a few questions, but that's the only example I've ever come across anyone being contacted.

I do not know if there are any official stats, but the system now if using the online one contacts the verifier for every verification. You are sent a link and asked to confirm you know the person by typing in their name, so if you did not know who they were then you would not be able to accurately enter their name and it would fail. I have had that system three times for people who I was their passport photo verifier in the last year. It might be different for paper applications and I could have just been in a particular group, but I suspect that the move to fully online and to verifying everyone properly is either already here, or very close. 

Dakta

I don't see the discrimination - everyone can ask someone of sufficient standing to sign their photos.

I do understand this can be hard if you don't know many suitable people, but it appears there's a lot of flex here so it should for most be quite possible.

Verifying people's identity can be a national security matter - therefore it is important. However, on a national scale checking everyones identity is also a mammoth task so it doesn't surprise me it is done at a 'community' level. The whole reason this doesn't fall flat, I would expect, is by having the rule of people with standing being required to sign off these checks, there is some level of 'insurance' because these people have something to lose (professional standing, long served careers, professional status) if they do not take this obligation and ask seriously. 

Not to be disrespectful, but if you do work as a checkout operator at a local supermarket. You would replace this job as comfortably as possible. Therefore would be much less incentive to take the obligations upon you seriously, and security could be compromised. You can't prevent abuse, but it is one way of getting a massive task done whilst making abuse of it as unappealing as possible.  I find the process inconvenient, but discrimination I don't think so. 

General_Grant

WYSPECIAL said:

theoretica said:

I wonder in practice if, or how often, an ID verification is turned down because the person signing it does not have a sufficiently recognised profession or community standing? Or does the list just put people off from trying?

Be interesting to know how often the person signing to verify identity is actually contacted.
I've never been contacted about any I've signed. 
A friend who signed my application for a child passport for my daughter once got a phone call from the Irish Embassy and asked a few questions, but that's the only example I've ever come across anyone being contacted.

About 20 years ago, I knew someone who was contacted to confirm their countersigning of a passport application.  They hadn't signed the form and didn't know the person.  Their signature had been copied from a local magazine where a facsimile of their signature appeared at the foot of a regular column.

Skiddaw1

Back in the day when I occasionally countersigned passport applications for friends and sometimes for my clients (I was in a 'recognised profession') I was once contacted by the passport office for confirmation. Only happened the once.

Smelly_Dog

It's good, old fashioned British snobbery. The idea that only people in a "recognised profession" are of good standing in the community. I encountered a similar thing when applying for my youngest son's passport. His mother simply filled in her details. I, as his father, had to jump through hoops proving who I was. My partner has just had one of my best mates rejected as "not suitable" as a referee. It's a joke. He has a degree from UCL. Is a qualified and chartered engineer. Has signed the "Official Secrets Act" due to his work on Nuclear Power Stations and Nuclear Submarines. His most recent job was doing contract work for the army. He is an IT Specialist and Software Engineer. Rejected by the clowns at the Passport Office as "not suitable!" It's a joke!

Andy_L

Smelly_Dog said:

It's good, old fashioned British snobbery. The idea that only people in a "recognised profession" are of good standing in the community. I encountered a similar thing when applying for my youngest son's passport. His mother simply filled in her details. I, as his father, had to jump through hoops proving who I was. My partner has just had one of my best mates rejected as "not suitable" as a referee. It's a joke. He has a degree from UCL. Is a qualified and chartered engineer. Has signed the "Official Secrets Act" due to his work on Nuclear Power Stations and Nuclear Submarines. His most recent job was doing contract work for the army. He is an IT Specialist and Software Engineer. Rejected by the clowns at the Passport Office as "not suitable!" It's a joke!

• "engineer with professional qualifications" is on the list

so the rejection is either a cockup or for some other reason.

DullGreyGuy

Smelly_Dog said:

It's good, old fashioned British snobbery. The idea that only people in a "recognised profession" are of good standing in the community. I encountered a similar thing when applying for my youngest son's passport. His mother simply filled in her details. I, as his father, had to jump through hoops proving who I was. My partner has just had one of my best mates rejected as "not suitable" as a referee. It's a joke. He has a degree from UCL. Is a qualified and chartered engineer. Has signed the "Official Secrets Act" due to his work on Nuclear Power Stations and Nuclear Submarines. His most recent job was doing contract work for the army. He is an IT Specialist and Software Engineer. Rejected by the clowns at the Passport Office as "not suitable!" It's a joke!

Historically maybe it was but today the list is so wide including a manager or HR person of a VAT registered business or a limited company. A straw poll in our pub not long ago about 50% of the regulars can sign a document as long as they meet the knowing/not related requirement. 

A Professional Engineer is an allowable signatory so if it was rejected it either wasnt because of his job or he failed to mention he holds qualifications. Can't say anyone who've signed for has ever resulted in any queries to me.