Discrmination because you don't work in a recognised professions that can countersign passport photo

Andy_L

theoretica said:

I wonder in practice if, or how often, an ID verification is turned down because the person signing it does not have a sufficiently recognised profession or community standing? Or does the list just put people off from trying?

"community standing" isn't the criteria for being able to countersign. 

Marcon

frank1978 said:

I was just wondering why people who don't work in or have not worked in one of the "respected" professions listed can't sign to confirm someone's identity for a passport. To me, it's implying that if you work in a low-paying job such as a cleaner or checkout operator, you're not a person of good standing and cannot be trusted. Or even because you don't have any employment, that could be the result of a disability, and you've been put at an unfair advantage and don't have the same rights because you don't have a job.

If something is an unfair advantage, nobody is likely to cry foul!

theoretica

Andy_L said:

theoretica said:

I wonder in practice if, or how often, an ID verification is turned down because the person signing it does not have a sufficiently recognised profession or community standing? Or does the list just put people off from trying?

"community standing" isn't the criteria for being able to countersign. 

It is according to this website https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications

Who can sign your form and photo

Your countersignatory must:

• have known you (or the adult who signed the form if the passport is for a child under 16) for at least 2 years
• be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally)
• be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession

DullGreyGuy

Flugelhorn said:

Interestingly doctors were taken off the list some years back - can still do it for friends / staff etc but not for patients. Apparently just because someone is registered at a practice doesn't mean you would identify them from a photo / know who they are. some GPs were sent unnamed photos by the passport office and asked to "name this person" and of course they often can't.
It was actually a lot easier when they stopped this and you didn't have to decide if you knew them well enough - particularly when one parents brought all the family's forms in and didn't actually bring the relevant people

According to a friend, who's a Doctor, it was only after a long petition that they were removed. Their explanation was that the £30 to sign a photo just wasn't worth the arguments as to why there was a charge etc 

35har1old

DullGreyGuy said:

Flugelhorn said:

Interestingly doctors were taken off the list some years back - can still do it for friends / staff etc but not for patients. Apparently just because someone is registered at a practice doesn't mean you would identify them from a photo / know who they are. some GPs were sent unnamed photos by the passport office and asked to "name this person" and of course they often can't.
It was actually a lot easier when they stopped this and you didn't have to decide if you knew them well enough - particularly when one parents brought all the family's forms in and didn't actually bring the relevant people

According to a friend, who's a Doctor, it was only after a long petition that they were removed. Their explanation was that the £30 to sign a photo just wasn't worth the arguments as to why there was a charge etc 

Currently I would find a counter signing person difficult  to find 
Haven't had any building work done recently do my own windows and gardening 
Most will charge a fee how is that a good idea 
Haven't met a Funeral Director 
Only person I no that would countersign is a librarian but asfar as I can see he is not on the list for passport applications 

Undervalued

35har1old said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Flugelhorn said:

Interestingly doctors were taken off the list some years back - can still do it for friends / staff etc but not for patients. Apparently just because someone is registered at a practice doesn't mean you would identify them from a photo / know who they are. some GPs were sent unnamed photos by the passport office and asked to "name this person" and of course they often can't.
It was actually a lot easier when they stopped this and you didn't have to decide if you knew them well enough - particularly when one parents brought all the family's forms in and didn't actually bring the relevant people

According to a friend, who's a Doctor, it was only after a long petition that they were removed. Their explanation was that the £30 to sign a photo just wasn't worth the arguments as to why there was a charge etc 

Currently I would find a counter signing person difficult  to find 
Haven't had any building work done recently do my own windows and gardening 
Most will charge a fee how is that a good idea 
Haven't met a Funeral Director 
Only person I no that would countersign is a librarian but asfar as I can see he is not on the list for passport applications 

The "professions" on the list are examples, it is not definitive. A librarian, certainly one qualified and holding chartered status, would be acceptable providing they can truthfully say they have known you well enough for at least two years.

MattMattMattUK

35har1old said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Flugelhorn said:

Interestingly doctors were taken off the list some years back - can still do it for friends / staff etc but not for patients. Apparently just because someone is registered at a practice doesn't mean you would identify them from a photo / know who they are. some GPs were sent unnamed photos by the passport office and asked to "name this person" and of course they often can't.
It was actually a lot easier when they stopped this and you didn't have to decide if you knew them well enough - particularly when one parents brought all the family's forms in and didn't actually bring the relevant people

According to a friend, who's a Doctor, it was only after a long petition that they were removed. Their explanation was that the £30 to sign a photo just wasn't worth the arguments as to why there was a charge etc 

Currently I would find a counter signing person difficult  to find 
Haven't had any building work done recently do my own windows and gardening 
Most will charge a fee how is that a good idea 
Haven't met a Funeral Director 
Only person I no that would countersign is a librarian but asfar as I can see he is not on the list for passport applications 

What about family though, does one of them own/run a limited company and/or is VAT registered? 

tightauldgit

MattMattMattUK said:

35har1old said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Flugelhorn said:

Interestingly doctors were taken off the list some years back - can still do it for friends / staff etc but not for patients. Apparently just because someone is registered at a practice doesn't mean you would identify them from a photo / know who they are. some GPs were sent unnamed photos by the passport office and asked to "name this person" and of course they often can't.
It was actually a lot easier when they stopped this and you didn't have to decide if you knew them well enough - particularly when one parents brought all the family's forms in and didn't actually bring the relevant people

According to a friend, who's a Doctor, it was only after a long petition that they were removed. Their explanation was that the £30 to sign a photo just wasn't worth the arguments as to why there was a charge etc 

Currently I would find a counter signing person difficult  to find 
Haven't had any building work done recently do my own windows and gardening 
Most will charge a fee how is that a good idea 
Haven't met a Funeral Director 
Only person I no that would countersign is a librarian but asfar as I can see he is not on the list for passport applications 

What about family though, does one of them own/run a limited company and/or is VAT registered? 

Direct family can't sign for you though. 

I'm also in this situation to be honest, luckily I already have my passport but being pretty socially isolated and having been self-employed for the past few years if I had to get a passport document signed I think I'd struggle. 

DullGreyGuy

35har1old said:

DullGreyGuy said:

Flugelhorn said:

Interestingly doctors were taken off the list some years back - can still do it for friends / staff etc but not for patients. Apparently just because someone is registered at a practice doesn't mean you would identify them from a photo / know who they are. some GPs were sent unnamed photos by the passport office and asked to "name this person" and of course they often can't.
It was actually a lot easier when they stopped this and you didn't have to decide if you knew them well enough - particularly when one parents brought all the family's forms in and didn't actually bring the relevant people

According to a friend, who's a Doctor, it was only after a long petition that they were removed. Their explanation was that the £30 to sign a photo just wasn't worth the arguments as to why there was a charge etc 

Currently I would find a counter signing person difficult  to find 
Haven't had any building work done recently do my own windows and gardening 
Most will charge a fee how is that a good idea 
Haven't met a Funeral Director 
Only person I no that would countersign is a librarian but asfar as I can see he is not on the list for passport applications 

I personally struggle to understand it but the response is always that the person has just moved to a new area, they're a loner and dont go to the local coronership, pub, restaurant etc etc.

In theory if the worst comes to the worst, get someone who can ID you who isnt a relative, pay them the token monies it is to setup a company, they can then sign as a director of a limited company, once new passport received then dissolve the company.

Andy_L

theoretica said:

Andy_L said:

theoretica said:

I wonder in practice if, or how often, an ID verification is turned down because the person signing it does not have a sufficiently recognised profession or community standing? Or does the list just put people off from trying?

"community standing" isn't the criteria for being able to countersign. 

It is according to this website https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications

Who can sign your form and photo

Your countersignatory must:

• have known you (or the adult who signed the form if the passport is for a child under 16) for at least 2 years
• be able to identify you, for example they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows you professionally)
• be ‘a person of good standing in their community’ or work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession

Interestering, the one linked to earlier in the thread
https://www.gov.uk/confirm-identity-online-for-passport-application
only has the "You must work in (or be retired from) a ‘recognised profession’." bit

Different rules for online vs signing the photo or just lazy cut & paste/not updating older pages?