Do I have a defence? - Claim Form Received

Coupon-mad

I don't think they'll discontinue, having gone as far as producing a joint bundle.

My main tip is to assume that the Judge has NOT read anything you've submitted and that you will need to walk them through your main points when it's your turn to speak.

Secondly: don't be complacent.  Even the best defence case never quite plays out as you envisioned.  Judges go off on tangents. Sometimes it's not easy.

Cross your fingers for a clever Judge who gets the scam and hates PPCs for wasting everyone's time & money (but not so much that they make an over-excited judgment).

You want a measured Judge who listens.

If it's 'in person' at court, aim to arrive a good half an hour early to get through security and to sign in with the Usher in the waiting area, and take hard copies of everything.

If their rep approaches you politely say "good morning" but refuse to speak in a side room. Tell them you want to speak before the Judge only.

At the end, ask for your costs. 

Camex3000

Will make sure to be prepared, thank you both for the advice @LDast @Coupon-mad

Camex3000

Hi,

I’ve had my hearing this morning and thankful to say that it was struck out. 

This was on the basis of it being a generic and undetailed PoC. The judge gave the advocate and myself a very brief minute or two for our views on the poc and then went into his ruling, detailing other cases and I think referring to point 16.4 in one of these if that may mean anything to anyone. Apologies I forgot to bring in a pen for notes. 

The judge did start but saying the defence was very detailed and imagined this was copied from online and said this is not the way to go about litigation. However then went into his judgement. 

The advocate did ask about appeal which the judge rejected. However he then explained to me that the claimant can take this to appeal to a level above him I think? So not sure whether to expect that or if they will bother? 

I also managed to get my costs for loss of earnings which is apparently capped at £95 and then travel and parking on top of that. 

Thank you massively again for your help here and especially to yourself @Coupon-mad. Hope you are benefitting in some way from assisting people here. Thanks! 

LDast

Excellent news and well done for persevering. Thank you for the court report. Good that you remembered to get your costs. They won't appeal it. Which judge and which court?

CPR 16.4 details the requirements that must be in the PoC and it was the claimants failure to put sufficient detail or possibly even mention the cause of action that was their downfall. This was all in your original defence from the template.

Interesting that you say "The judge did start but saying the defence was very detailed and imagined this was copied from online and said this is not the way to go about litigation." Was this possibly in response to a question to you about the defence? Possibly a question that you were not sure about the answer?

I ask the above as the sis the second time today that we have seen a judge query the template defence ("generic" internet defence as one called it). At least your judge had the sense to see the claimants abject failure and took into consideration your lack of legal training and the claimants woeful ignorance considering they are supposed to the the legal professionals.

Coupon-mad

How funny/ironic that the main preliminary point that coming here and using the Template Defence gave you, was the winning point but the Judge criticised you for using that Defence!

If you hadn't come here you'd never have got the case thrown out this easily!  Madness.

I think Judges are too grumpy sometimes and seem to think Defendants should 'sink or swim' with no life raft, just because some of the Judiciary don't like forum defences.  What else were you meant to do?!

ANYWAY WELL DONE. Costs too!

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

When you get the Judgment in writing, it will be short & sweet but if it includes a short rationale about "breach of CPR16.4" please could you take a photo of it (cover your name) and come back here & show us the final judgment?

We can add it to the other similar judgments PDF.  That then helps other posters achieve what you did.

Which court?

Camex3000

Hiya, 

It was at Reading County Court. Apologies can’t remember the judges name. 

@LDast to confirm it wasn’t in a response to a question to me that the judge said about the online template. He just started his judgement with that and then said ‘however’ and went into his criticism of the Poc. 

@Coupon-mad will be sure to add the photo if it includes the rationale. 

Thanks again for all the help! 

Coupon-mad

Ah!  Reading Court are already onside re the 'wholly inadequate POC' argument so you were pushing against an open door.  Even so, nicely done and congrats on the success & costs.

Yes please, re the judgment, if it mentions the rationale.  It might just say 'claim dismissed'!

Le_Kirk

Judges are funny, they seem to take exception to the man on the Clapham omnibus getting help when all the time the legally qualified people behind most claimants use the same (poor) POC all the time and the same C&P witness statements!  There should be no need and indeed it would be impossible to write a new different defence for every claim; if the arguments are valid in law, that is all the judge should be concerned with!

Camex3000

Hi, 

Just to update I'm afraid the judgement has no mention of the rationale with nothing on CPR16.4. It just states the the defendant's claim is hereby struck out, they are to pay me my costs and the application for permission to appeal is refused. 

Also from this I can see that the judge was District Judge Nicholson. 

@Coupon-mad @LDast

Thanks!

Coupon-mad

Very good outcome anyway and thanks for confirming it. Did you get those costs yet?!