New Heating System

PoGee

I know snp are saying we can't sell our houses if we install gas boilers but that's what I'd like to get anyway. The previous owners had oil heating and changed the boiler to gas in 1992. I bought the property mid 1990s. The copper pipework and radiators are from the oil system. I'd like to change  to  a combi, remove the water tank in loft and remove water cylinder. As the pipework is so old - it's best to get these changed also?
How much approximately would it cost to do the whole lot (remove old system, supply and fit new boiler/ all pipework/ radiators), as a ballpark figure? I'd be looking for a boiler that is one of the better ones e.g Bosch. It's a 1960s 3 bed semi. Any ideas would be appreciated.

JohnSwift10

£8000                                              ...

ThisIsWeird

Any idea when the original CH was installed?
What do the rads look like?

FreeBear

Copper pipe is fairly resistant to the effects of age. There was some dodgy pipe being supplied during the 80s that was prone to pin hole leaks after 15-20 years. Hopefully, most of that has been replaced by now.

PoGee

ThisIsWeird said:

Any idea when the original CH was installed?
What do the rads look like?

The radiators are rusted in places, especially the one in the hall. They all look like this 
apart from the valve on the top right side of radiator. Not sure on when the heating system was put in originally (the oil one) but I've never had any leaks and when the boiler did go on the blink in 2003, I had a homecare plan which paid for the repair. It's a Glow Worm bolier. I'm still happy with it but want space in the attic for a possible bedroom, hence wanting to change to combi.
I could paint the radiators but the one in the hall would need replaced. 
Is there a heating system that isn't as a high a pressure s a combi, meaning I could potentially keep the old copper pipes but remove the water tank in the attic + keep the hot water tank in the airing cupboard?

Googled it - are system boilers any good?

ThisIsWeird

PoGee said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Any idea when the original CH was installed?
What do the rads look like?

The radiators are rusted in places, especially the one in the hall. They all look like this 
apart from the valve on the top right side of radiator. Not sure on when the heating system was put in originally (the oil one) but I've never had any leaks and when the boiler did go on the blink in 2003, I had a homecare plan which paid for the repair. It's a Glow Worm bolier. I'm still happy with it but want space in the attic for a possible bedroom, hence wanting to change to combi.
I could paint the radiators but the one in the hall would need replaced. 
Is there a heating system that isn't as a high a pressure s a combi, meaning I could potentially keep the old copper pipes but remove the water tank in the attic + keep the hot water tank in the airing cupboard?

Googled it - are system boilers any good?

These look like lowish-output radiators - ie single panels with possibly no fins on the back. Modern boilers work most efficiently if they run cooler, so the way to get the same amount of heat into a room with cooler water is to fit larger output radiators. So certainly worth it in the 'living' areas which will be heated more often.

Any rad that's remotely dodgy, then consider replacing it - with twice the output (eg using double-panel rads with fins, etc).

Very good chance your copper pipes are ok, but it's really hard to judge.

Your options for system types:

1) Combi. You know what that does - heats your DHW on demand. No storage tanks at all - no F&E, no CWS, no hot cylinder. Check your incoming mains supply is adequate - flow and pressure.

2) System boiler with unvented hot cylinder. System boiler - like a combi - does not require a F&E tank in the loft - it has a small expansion vessel inside it instead. The unvented cylinder doesn't require a CWS tank in the loft - it is supplied directly from the mains. As with a combi, you need to confirm your mains is flowish and pressurish enough to drive it.

Pros and cons? The combi only heats what you use, but can only supply one tap or shower at a time properly. The unvented cylinder can - if the mains supply is good enough - supply more than one tap at a time, but the cylinder takes up space.

You need a plumber to test and confirm the suitability of each.

Both use the same pressure - ie 'mains'. That is, the 'system' side of it is pressurised to ~1bar, but the DHW side will be at 'mains' pressure in both cases. Yes, sometimes that can reveal weaknesses in pipes that have chuntered along at 0.2bar (from a tank in the loft), but that's no reason to not go for it.

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said: 1) Combi. You know what that does - heats your DHW on demand. No storage tanks at all - no F&E, no CWS, no hot cylinder. Check your incoming mains supply is adequate - flow and pressure.

Pros and cons? The combi only heats what you use, but can only supply one tap or shower at a time properly. The unvented cylinder can - if the mains supply is good enough - supply more than one tap at a time, but the cylinder takes up space.

Some combi boilers have a small tank of hot water that is maintained at a constant temperature - The Viessmann 111 springs to mind.. For a small household, this extra HW is not really needed, and there is an additional cost in keeping the tank hot (although it can be disabled). If you have a decent flow and pressure, then a combi can cope with multiple taps running at the same time (maybe not with a shower).

Regardless of whether you fit a combi or system (heat only) boiler, it is well worth fitting larger radiators - Bigger radiators mean you can run at a lower flow temperature which increases the boiler efficiency. Should your pipework need replacing, it could pay to use larger diameter pipes in conjunction with bigger radiators with an eye on the future when heat pumps are the only replacements available. The extra cost of bigger pipes & radiators is not that large when compared to labour costs.

Alnat1

If the government continues with the plans it has now, eventually we will all need to heat our houses with electricity, most likely with an air source heat pump. While it's still cheaper at the moment to use gas boilers, it might be better to future proof your property and think ahead if fitting a gas boiler now.

ASHPs require a hot water tank and work best with double panel, double fin type radiators. If you're making changes to your system, bear in mind it's probably best not to do anything that will need to be reversed in 10-15 years time.

PoGee

Alnat1 said:

If the government continues with the plans it has now, eventually we will all need to heat our houses with electricity, most likely with an air source heat pump. While it's still cheaper at the moment to use gas boilers, it might be better to future proof your property and think ahead if fitting a gas boiler now.

ASHPs require a hot water tank and work best with double panel, double fin type radiators. If you're making changes to your system, bear in mind it's probably best not to do anything that will need to be reversed in 10-15 years time.

Thanks, definitely something to think about.

ThisIsWeird

Alnat1 said:

If the government continues with the plans it has now, eventually we will all need to heat our houses with electricity, most likely with an air source heat pump. While it's still cheaper at the moment to use gas boilers, it might be better to future proof your property and think ahead if fitting a gas boiler now.

ASHPs require a hot water tank and work best with double panel, double fin type radiators. If you're making changes to your system, bear in mind it's probably best not to do anything that will need to be reversed in 10-15 years time.

Not to detract from this thread, but I wonder what the alternatives to ASHPs will be? Because not every home is going to be able to have that big ugly box stuck to it, or the internal space for a hot Thermal Store.

FreeBear

ThisIsWeird said:

Alnat1 said:

If the government continues with the plans it has now, eventually we will all need to heat our houses with electricity, most likely with an air source heat pump. While it's still cheaper at the moment to use gas boilers, it might be better to future proof your property and think ahead if fitting a gas boiler now.

ASHPs require a hot water tank and work best with double panel, double fin type radiators. If you're making changes to your system, bear in mind it's probably best not to do anything that will need to be reversed in 10-15 years time.

Not to detract from this thread, but I wonder what the alternatives to ASHPs will be? Because not every home is going to be able to have that big ugly box stuck to it, or the internal space for a hot Thermal Store.

Ground Source Heat Pumps using shared/communal bore holes is one option - https://www.kensaheatpumps.com/social-housing/together-housing-daisyfield/

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/news/community-heating-with-boreholes-under-road

If heat pumps or bio-fuels (e.g. wood pellet/chips) are out of the question, then old fashion storage heaters will be about your only choice once gas/oil is no longer available.... Unless there is a district heating system available that you can tap in to.