CP Plus PCN Issued for MOTO services in England, live in Scotland

GimbalCatz

Hi, I've read the newbies thread but unsure of my situation as the 'event' was in England but I live in Scotland - a so a little confused over the guidance issued for both sides of the border.

Got a PCN through from CP Plus from a MOTO services carpark, but they didn't send the initial Notice to Keeper 14day notice (with the 'reduced price'/'bribe' offer), I am certain of that, if they did I can say 100% that it did not arrive. I don't want to make contact with them to tell them this, for them to just say 'yes we did' and produce a document that can easily be backdated and also draw out the process...

The notice has ANPR and CCTV pictures of the numberplate, but other than the headlights and number plate the rest of the image is black, can't see the cabin at all, as it was nighttime hours.

Looking at the template appeal response, I'm not sure if I can use it, as it does state why it's been issued, it does have photo evidence of the vehicle (but not the signage which may have had the grace period etc..)

Do I appeal this, or just take the usual guidance of ignoring it? Are they likely to pursue north of the border or can they even?

YankeeBrit

Whether the NtK has the correct PoFA warning or not, in Scotland, only the driver can be held liable. PoFA does not apply in Scotland. They cannot transfer liability to the RK and as you are the RK you are under no legal obligation to reveal the identity of the driver.

Personally, I'd just email my appeal telling them that as the RK, I have informed the driver that they should get in touch with you. My obligation to you is now satisfied and you should now deal directly with the driver as or when they decide to contact you. Now remove my personal details from your system and advise me when you have done so. Failure to do so could result in a claim for damages for breaching my GDPR.

Coupon-mad

The above is good.

And PLAN A - landowner complaint.

GimbalCatz

YankeeBrit said:

Whether the NtK has the correct PoFA warning or not, in Scotland, only the driver can be held liable. PoFA does not apply in Scotland. They cannot transfer liability to the RK and as you are the RK you are under no legal obligation to reveal the identity of the driver.

Personally, I'd just email my appeal telling them that as the RK, I have informed the driver that they should get in touch with you. My obligation to you is now satisfied and you should now deal directly with the driver as or when they decide to contact you. Now remove my personal details from your system and advise me when you have done so. Failure to do so could result in a claim for damages for breaching my GDPR.

Right, so even though the claim was on English soil, the Scottish process is applicable since I live here?

Coupon-mad said:

The above is good.

And PLAN A - landowner complaint.

Right, lets see how that goes... *gulp*

Coupon-mad

Gulp? But you can just totally ignore it!

YankeeBrit

GimbalCatz said:

Right, so even though the claim was on English soil, the Scottish process is applicable since I live here? 

If the defendant is a Scottish resident and the claim is being pursued in an English county court, the English court would generally not have jurisdiction over the case. The reason is that the English county court's jurisdiction is limited to England and Wales, and it does not have authority over individuals or entities residing in Scotland.

They could try a claim in Scotland under the Simple Procedure Rules but that would not be cost-effective as they cannot claim those costs back, win or lose, under the Scottish system. They would have to pay a hearing fee of £20 if the claim is for £300 or less, otherwise £110. Both parties are expected to bear their own costs. So, it becomes too expensive for them to claim in the Scottish courts.

Don't forget, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished individuals who are only interested in conning gullible victims out of money. It is going to cost them more than they can recover and involves a requirement to understand things like jurisdiction. Apart from some useless debt collector threats, they are not going to proceed with this any further. There are lower-hanging fruit for them to spend their energies on.

Castle

YankeeBrit said:

GimbalCatz said:

Right, so even though the claim was on English soil, the Scottish process is applicable since I live here? 

If the defendant is a Scottish resident and the claim is being pursued in an English county court, the English court would generally not have jurisdiction over the case. The reason is that the English county court's jurisdiction is limited to England and Wales, and it does not have authority over individuals or entities residing in Scotland.

They could try a claim in Scotland under the Simple Procedure Rules but that would not be cost-effective as they cannot claim those costs back, win or lose, under the Scottish system. 

And, importantly, they can only bring a claim against the driver in a Scottish Court.

YankeeBrit

Castle said:

And, importantly, they can only bring a claim against the driver in a Scottish Court.

@GimbalCatz, note the operative word "driver" above. The PCN/NtK (Notice to Keeper) you received from CP Plus is addressed to you as the Registered Keeper (RK). They have no idea who was driving and you have no legal obligation to reveal that to them. So, if they were stupid enough to bother trying to start a claim against you in a Scottish court... they can't... because in Scotland, they can only claim against the "driver".

If you wanted a bit of Schadenfreude, you could write to CP Plus and inform them, that as you are obviously resident in Scotland, you have passed on their PCN to the driver and as such, they no longer have any reason to keep your personal details in their system and should erase them forthwith. Remind them that they have a legal duty to fulfil your request as per your GDPR and should confirm within 30 days that they have complied otherwise you reserve the right to sue them for any breach. As you have made this request, passing your personal details to a third party would constitute a further breach of the GDPR and Section 168 of the Data Protection Act 2018.

As a final note, wish them good luck with the pursuit of their speculative invoice... should the driver get in touch with them.

Coupon-mad

There is a response I wrote last month that can be used to shut them up.  Search the forum for:

Scotland Specsavers

GimbalCatz

Thanks all for your help.  I'll give it a go.

B789

That was three weeks ago. Why are you prevaricating? Either ignore it completely and they will, eventually, stop sending you dent collector letters and will move on to other low-hanging fruit from the gullible tree.

That, or have a bit of fun sending them what was advised at the beginning of this thread. Your choice.