APCOA Station (ANPR) Penalty Notice - Surrey

ObserverOfLife

Hi folks, 

Apologies for adding a new thread, I have spent hours reading through the Newbie thread and past APCOA threads. I am Deaf reliant on British Sign Language and the level of English is really overwhelming so just struggling to make sense of things. I would appreciate some clarity on couple things. Big thanks to the numerous contributors to the threads.

The registered keeper received a NTK Penalty Notice alleging 'offence' of breaching Byelaw 14 on 11 July 2023 using the ANPR system at a railway station (No windscreen ticket). The RingGo App confirmed the payment of ticket but it never successfully went through (Bad signal in that area) so it was not realised that no tickets were purchased until NTK was received but APCOA won't care about that.

The letter date of issue of notice is 21 July 2023. The letter did not arrive until 27 July 2023. 16 days from 11 July 2023. From what I read on the Newbies thread, they may have failed to appropriately send the letter within 14 days?

Furthermore, as this is a penalty notice, rather than PCN, It looked like a different approach is needed. I have to try and drag this on for 6 months and it will be timed out? I am worried about the anxiety of this lingering for 6 months, particularly as the English is a struggle for me - what would the process be over the next 6 months if I appeal?

The wording of the letter is confusing - it stated:

"DVLA records indicate that you were the registered keeper of the vehicle on the date of the offence. You may are legally liable for this offence as the owner even if you were not the driver at the time." I do not see how they can punish the keeper for the action of another. 

Should I be appealing via letter or online? 

I will not divluge the drivers or indicate who was driving. Is the below the correct template to use? Taken from another thread but was relating to PCN originally.

"Re PN number: xxxxx

I dispute your 'penalty notice', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Since the alleged event occurred on non-relevant railway land where byelaws apply, the PoFA cannot be used to hold the keeper liable."

Big thanks in advance

Fruitcake

You have done everything right so far, and well done on your research. It is spot on.

Normally, Plan A would be a complaint to the landowner, but you don't want to alert them to this until 6 months have passed.

Note that where a penalty has been issued where byelaws are concerned, only the landowner can instigate court proceedings, and only in the magistrate's court, and only within 6 months of the date of the alleged event. From memory, failing to pay for parking is not a byelaw offence.
In addition, APCOA never do court, even if they could. They can't where byelaws are concerned, and they would get nothing even if it did go to court. All they can do is pass the case to the landowner (but I have never known that to happy with any parking company because it will cost them money and which they cannot recover.

If the landowner complaint fails, then send the appeal you have posted above to APCOA using their online appeal portal as near to the appeal deadline as possible, so around day 26 from the date of issue of the NTK.
If it is rejected (APCOA often cancel at the first stage when they realise the motorist knows about byelaws) then wait as long as possible before appealing to PoPLA. Come back here if you need to make a PoPLA appeal, but APCOA are dead easy to beat.

Worry you not. You are in the right place and will get all the help you need.

ObserverOfLife

Thanks @Fruitcake - Much appreciated. 

I just need to clarify the plan A. Should I disregard this as I do not want to alert them to this? So I would just skip ahead and appeal directly to APCOA on day 26? Sorry, just a little confused whether I need to contact the landowners first before appealing. 

Within the appeal template, I had included "explanation of allegation and your evidence". The only evidence they have is the vehicle entering and exiting with time-stamps. 

Lastly, does the 14 days time-frame matter/strengthen my argument and is something to include within the appeal?

Cheers

Umkomaas

Sorry, just a little confused whether I need to contact the landowners first before appealing. 

Keep that until after 6 months, the pint after which the penalty cannot be pursued through the Mags Court. 

I had included "explanation of allegation and your evidence". The only evidence they have is the vehicle entering and exiting with time-stamps. 

Rejection letters are templates. You won't get a response to questions. 

Lastly, does the 14 days time-frame matter/strengthen my argument and is something to include within the appeal?

Doesn't apply to byelaws cases. Railway assets are 'not relevant land' fir Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) and keeper liability purposes. But, you could throw it into the mix for APCOA to see if they take the bait and confuse your case with a standard private parking PCN. 

ukcpm_canSMD

ringo usually tend to be good and I've never had a problem using car parks managed by them/ or their payment systems.

It could be that the car park is located in a signal black-spot, which would therefore make the ringo payment system via app essentially defective. worth running it by the more experienced members on here, but if you can somehow prove that signal is weak in that area, this could be a good defence. 

Fruitcake

I amended my advice about complaining to the landowner, so I suspect you read my earlier advice.
Definitely don't let the landowner/TOC know anything about this until six months are up. By then this will have been cancelled or timed out. You can then complain to them and the keeper's MP about the failure of the payment system.


As for the 14 days, both the PoFA 2012 and the Limitation Act work on the premise that something sent by first class post will arrive two working days later, which brings the assumed delivery date inside the 14 days.

YankeeBrit

Why are you overthinking this? It is just the bottom-dwelling UKPC. Try your Plan A and Plans B & C appeals. When it comes to Plan D, use the robust defence template and you will see this discontinued. About 6 - 8 months from now.

Just weather the inevitable storm of useless debt collector letters. It's all in the Newbies/FAQ thread.

paulstevens64

Its APCOA, not UKPC, so the above advice by YankeeBrit is not correct.

YankeeBrit

paulstevens64 said:

Its APCOA, not UKPC, so the above advice by YankeeBrit is not correct.

Please feel free to advise us why my advice is incorrect.

Are you suggesting that APCOA will instigate court proceedings?

Fruitcake

APCOA do not use PoFA compliant NTKs, and the OP shouldn't contact the landowner/TOC until six months have passed, so Plan A is not advised yet.

APCOA don't do court so it won't get to Plan D, so there won't be any need to use the defence template.

ObserverOfLife

Amending my appeal slightly - I took a look at the ticket reference on APCOA website and discovered the title at the top is saying Parking Charge Notice when the letter is stating Penalty Notice so this is very confusing. BPA's Code of Practice 5.4 stated that the term Parking Charge Notice should not be used yet this is clearly on the website ticket. Any strength in this?

""Re PN number: xxxxx

I dispute your 'penalty notice', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

The ticket on the APCOA website states at the top it is a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) which contravenes the BPA's Code of Practice 5.4 and is causing confusion as to the situation whether this is a penalty notice or PCN. 

Furthermore, the letter was not sent in sufficient time as it was received 16 days after the alleged offence. 

Since the alleged event occurred on non-relevant railway land where byelaws apply, the PoFA cannot be used to hold the keeper liable."