Courier returned my package to me and now I can't get my money back

Choggy

Hi all,

I purchased something from Amazon and decided it wasn't to my satisfaction so I chose to return  it (all fine so far). However, I had to pay for return postage and the parcel is bulky so most normal methods would have cost an arm and a leg. I used ParcelCompare and Evri came out the cheapest (uh-oh!). They tried to deliver my parcel on a Saturday (to a business premises on an industrial estate, so of course there was nobody around to receive) and on a single failed delivery returned the parcel to me. I contacted ParcelCompare but their line is Evri is a budget service so there's nothing we can do... but hey, at least they didn't charge you for returning your parcel to you!

This is just yet another case of Evri having one job and not doing it. But what can I do? I'm now nearly forty quid down (between the cost of the unsatisfactory item and cost of the return parcel) and yet I still have this bulky, unwanted parcel clogging up my small flat.

What are my rights? Do I have any recourse to make them retry the delivery (this time on a week day) without charging me again? It's just incomprehensible to me that they would try to deliver anything to an industrial estate on a Saturday, given that Saturday delivery is a premium service with every other courier and there's no option to tell Evri to deliver only on a week day.

Thanks,

C

RefluentBeans

I’ve had similar issues with Hermes (Evri’s predecessor). From what I remember, if you purchased through a merchant then Evri won’t consider the purchase with them, and the contract through the merchant. But ParcelCompare’s terms they make a reasonable attempt to deliver three times:

ParcelCompare uses reasonable efforts to make three (3) delivery attempts. Notwithstanding this, You acknowledge that this may not be possible where some destinations and Sub-Contractors are concerned in which case Your Undeliverable Consignment shall be available for collection at a ParcelCompare Depot.

The terms of Evri state that:

The Services commence as soon as we (or one of our ParcelShops) are in physical possession of your Parcel. If we are unable to deliver your Parcel to the Address, we will make two further attempts to deliver it (the “Further Attempts”). If we’re still unable to deliver your Parcel, we will return it to the sender’s address provided by you with the Parcel. If this address is incorrect or absent, we may have to dispose of your Parcel.

Based on this - Evri’s terms don’t really matter (as they’re not the terms you agreed to) but does highlight that the subcontractor (Evri) would normally attempt to deliver three times. 

I would go back and ask why deliver re-attempts weren’t made. They appear to have broken their terms, so you are within your rights to ask for a refund and/or redelivery.

Alderbank

Just to clarify @RefluentBeans, can you confirm that the contract terms of ParcelCompare and Evri require the three attempts to be on different days and would not permit them to claim for example that they attempted delivery on the Saturday in question at 10am, noon and 3pm?

tightauldgit

Alderbank said:

Just to clarify @RefluentBeans, can you confirm that the contract terms of ParcelCompare and Evri require the three attempts to be on different days and would not permit them to claim for example that they attempted delivery on the Saturday in question at 10am, noon and 3pm?

I don't think that would fly personally, but at the very least Evri would have to show the three attempts on their tracking which it appears they don't.

RefluentBeans

Alderbank said:

Just to clarify @RefluentBeans, can you confirm that the contract terms of ParcelCompare and Evri require the three attempts to be on different days and would not permit them to claim for example that they attempted delivery on the Saturday in question at 10am, noon and 3pm?

I would hope so - but there doesn’t seem to be that in the terms, that I could find. ParcelCompares terms page is a nightmare to navigate (on a phone) so I may have missed it, but I don’t think Evri does. 

Given that Evri uses local drivers it could be possible that two attempts were made on the same day, and potentially a third on Sunday (the next day), but I would think it’s rare for that to occur. But without seeing the tracking there’s no way to really confirm that. 

But that would really be between ParcelCompare and Evri I think, as I don’t think ParcelCompare acts as a market place, but instead a broker or merchant. So the contract the OP had would likely be between themselves and ParcelCompare. Happy to be corrected though - as the marketplace type of business still confuses me slightly, and seems very unclear…

Okell

I don't buy stuff from Amazon (on principle   ) but don't they provide their own returns service if the consumer is making a "change of mind" cancellation/return?  I'm a bit surprised the OP had to organise the return themselves.

(I suppose it could have been a small market place seller with no return system of their own)

RefluentBeans

Okell said:

I don't buy stuff from Amazon (on principle   ) but don't they provide their own returns service if the consumer is making a "change of mind" cancellation/return?  I'm a bit surprised the OP had to organise the return themselves.

(I suppose it could have been a small market place seller with no return system of their own)

Think it depends if it’s sold and shipped by Amazon, or just shipped by Amazon, or bought off the marketplace aspect. 

Sold and shipped = Amazon sells you the product, and then ships it themselves. 

Shipped by Amazon = seller uses Amazon warehousing and Amazon dispatched to customer on sellers behalf. Normally the seller pays a ‘warehousing fee for this’. 

Marketplace = just used Amazon as a selling platform. In this case, think of Amazon as eBay. 

In this case, marketplace was properly used, so Amazon will only intervene when there’s a dispute between seller and buyer. They won’t organise a collection or anything for the sellers behalf as they haven’t been paid for that and/or don’t want to share liability. 

In my opinion, the Amazon site is too confusing with this aspect. Most issues arise through the third party sellers, when people don’t know they’re using Amazon as a marketplace. It’s there if you know what you’re looking for but it’s not always overly clear for people who are new to the site. 

Exodi

Okell said:

I don't buy stuff from Amazon (on principle   ) but don't they provide their own returns service if the consumer is making a "change of mind" cancellation/return?  I'm a bit surprised the OP had to organise the return themselves.

(I suppose it could have been a small market place seller with no return system of their own)

Without boring you with the detail, I work with Amazon quite closely and there are several fulfillment options available to merchants:

One is where a merchants holds stock in an Amazon warehouse, in which Amazon takes care of the logistics (known in the industry as Fulfillment by Amazon or FBA).

The other is where a merchant just uses Amazon as a marketplace and fulfills the orders themselves directly from their premises.

You can actually see which it will be by looking under the 'add to basket' button on any item, where it will say 'Sold by X and Fulfilled by Y' - this indicates where the goods are coming from (and typically where they might need to be returned to).

If the goods are fulfilled by Amazon, they will use their returns service (whereby they might provide labels, allow you to drop off to lockers, etc). If the goods are fulfilled by the merchant directly, the merchant may request the customer organises return back to them (though some may provide a label). That said, in a 'change of mind' return, the merchant is not obliged to cover the cost so I expect most would expect the customer to organise the return.

This is fundamentally a problem between the OP and the courier they used - nothing to do with the merchant. The merchant will undoubtedly be happy to refund the money when they get the goods back.

Alderbank

I wonder if we are missing the point here a little.

I assume the OP made it clear to the trader that they were cancelling the sale under their rights in the Consumer Contract Regulations 2013?

If so the trader must refund without delay within 14 calendar days after the day on which the day the consumer supplies evidence of returning them.

OP appears to have this evidence that the goods have been returned to the trader's premises although the trader was unable to accept them.
Monday to Friday is just traditional office hours. We don't actually know the trader's hours of business or indeed the times during which he accepts deliveries. Many places work on Saturdays, some work seven days a week. The trader might actually only be open normally two days a week. Many businesses only accept goods inwards at certain times.

However that doesn't matter to the OP because CCR 2013 says the trader cannot require the consumer to pay any costs or charges above the direct cost of returning the goods.
I assume Evri left a card to say they tried to return the goods with instructions for how the trader can recover them. However in my opinion that is the trader's problem and his expense if he has to collect from a depot or pay an employee to accept delivery at a specified time.

What is everyone else's view?

Exodi

Alderbank said:

I wonder if we are missing the point here a little.

I assume the OP made it clear to the trader that they were cancelling the sale under their rights in the Consumer Contract Regulations 2013?

If so the trader must refund without delay within 14 calendar days after the day on which the day the consumer supplies evidence of returning them.

OP appears to have this evidence that the goods have been returned to the trader's premises although the trader was unable to accept them.
Monday to Friday is just traditional office hours. We don't actually know the trader's hours of business or indeed the times during which he accepts deliveries. Many places work on Saturdays, some work seven days a week. The trader might actually only be open normally two days a week. Many businesses only accept goods inwards at certain times.

However that doesn't matter to the OP because CCR 2013 says the trader cannot require the consumer to pay any costs or charges above the direct cost of returning the goods.
I assume Evri left a card to say they tried to return the goods with instructions for how the trader can recover them. However in my opinion that is the trader's problem and his expense if he has to collect from a depot or pay an employee to accept delivery at a specified time.

What is anyone else's view?

I'd assume this "the trader must refund without delay within 14 calendar days after the day on which the day the consumer supplies evidence of returning them" to be the case if the merchant was the one organising the courier, surely... I can't see it being reasonable to expect a merchant to refund a consumer for an item they have objectively (beyond any doubt) not received.

If the goods were accepted as lost, the consumer holds the contract with the courier so would be entitled to claim a second refund for the goods?

I don't think this is right. Surely, I couldn't force a refund from a shop because I took a picture of myself outside it, parcel in hand, at midnight?

But I appreciate all the above is subjective.

Alderbank

I'm sorry you think that is a very anti-business view   . It's not my personal view though, it's just what the law says.

The precise wording of s34  of the Act is:

(4) Reimbursement must be without undue delay, and in any event not later than the time specified in paragraph (5) or (6).(5) If the contract is a sales contract and the trader has not offered to collect the goods, the time is the end of 14 days after—(6)(a)the day on which the trader receives the goods back, or
(b)if earlier, the day on which the consumer supplies evidence of having sent the goods back.