CIVIL ENFORCEMENT - County Court Claim

frazzg

Hi all,
Been battling private tickets for years but this is the first one that has gotten to court, usually if it gets to LBCC I'll go to the landowner and have it cancelled but I somehow missed the letter and it's now a claim in court against me. 

As a brief explanation, I hold a blue badge for my crohns disease which is pretty severe. I parked in a church car park, whilst the church was closed, at about 20:00 last February (22) till around 23:00. I had to pull over somewhere safe as I had a very bad flare up, could barely move it was that painful, ended up falling asleep due to pure exhaustion, it wasn't safe for me to drive anyway, I was in too much pain to leave the car. Furthermore, the church isn't well lit whatsover. The entrance sign is a dark blue and says to read sign terms and conditions. The signs inside (photo attached whilst I'm trying to see it stood outside the car) are very unreadable especially in that light and, as I mentioned, I wasn't able to leave the car. Parkers are mean't to go inside the church to enter their reg to get a permit.

I also tried to appeal to them but the only way to appeal is through their website which didn't work after multiple attempts, there is not other way of contacting them so I am unable to ask for a SAR too. They have no contact number etc which is shown quite obviously by the amount of poor online reviews with many people saying the same thing (I have screenshots of these prepared).

My biggest point is that I spoke to the church, more namely the vicar, and have emails from him saying he will cancel the fine as he understood the reasoning. But Parking Enforcement came back to him and said they can't cancel it as it's going to court so it's too late (not sure on how that works).

It's an '£100 'fine', they're trying to get close to £300 including extra costs now.

I think that's most of it.

Obviously my first question is , does this sound winnable? Is there any glaringly obvious points I should take out/put in?

First time doing a defence, have gone through the newbies etc, am slightly confused on where to put the witness statement compared to the defence and how much I'll actually have to say in court. Also am I best putting the defence here for others to check over? 

Thanks in advance

YankeeBrit

What is the "issue date" of the claim? Have you done your AoS? If so, on what date?

Civil Enforcement is Male Bovine Excrementing the Vicar. They can cancel at any time. Perhaps a pointer to the Vicar to ask who is the Organ Grinder and who is the Monkey in the contractual relationship between the church and the unregulated, ex-clamper, private parking company.

It is not a "fine". It is a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract. You can defend this by following all the advice in the second post of the Newbies/FAQ thread.

Coupon-mad

frazzg said:

Hi all,
Been battling private tickets for years but this is the first one that has gotten to court, usually if it gets to LBCC I'll go to the landowner and have it cancelled but I somehow missed the letter and it's now a claim in court against me. 

As a brief explanation, I hold a blue badge for my crohns disease which is pretty severe. I parked in a church car park, whilst the church was closed, at about 20:00 last February (22) till around 23:00. I had to pull over somewhere safe as I had a very bad flare up, could barely move it was that painful, ended up falling asleep due to pure exhaustion, it wasn't safe for me to drive anyway, I was in too much pain to leave the car. Furthermore, the church isn't well lit whatsover. The entrance sign is a dark blue and says to read sign terms and conditions. The signs inside (photo attached whilst I'm trying to see it stood outside the car) are very unreadable especially in that light and, as I mentioned, I wasn't able to leave the car. Parkers are mean't to go inside the church to enter their reg to get a permit.

I also tried to appeal to them but the only way to appeal is through their website which didn't work after multiple attempts, there is not other way of contacting them so I am unable to ask for a SAR too. They have no contact number etc which is shown quite obviously by the amount of poor online reviews with many people saying the same thing (I have screenshots of these prepared).

My biggest point is that I spoke to the church, more namely the vicar, and have emails from him saying he will cancel the fine as he understood the reasoning. But Parking Enforcement came back to him and said they can't cancel it as it's going to court so it's too late (not sure on how that works).

It's an '£100 'fine', they're trying to get close to £300 including extra costs now.

I think that's most of it.

Obviously my first question is , does this sound winnable? Is there any glaringly obvious points I should take out/put in?

First time doing a defence, have gone through the newbies etc, am slightly confused on where to put the witness statement compared to the defence and how much I'll actually have to say in court. Also am I best putting the defence here for others to check over? 

Thanks in advance

Very winnable!

Do answer the questions by YankeeBrit.

frazzg

YankeeBrit said:

What is the "issue date" of the claim? Have you done your AoS? If so, on what date?

Civil Enforcement is Male Bovine Excrementing the Vicar. They can cancel at any time. Perhaps a pointer to the Vicar to ask who is the Organ Grinder and who is the Monkey in the contractual relationship between the church and the unregulated, ex-clamper, private parking company.

It is not a "fine". It is a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract. You can defend this by following all the advice in the second post of the Newbies/FAQ thread.

Thanks for the response. 

Issue date 18th July, AOS was sent 27th July and confirmed to be received. 

Out of interest, do you know if there is anywhere I can find proof that they can cancel at any time? Just something I can send the vicar to have them fight my corner somewhat. Or even something I can use in court. 
Any other advice greatly appreciated

Coupon-mad

You won't find that until you see the landowner agreement divulged the month before the hearing.  And that document may not even say it!

This is all about whatever agreement the principal has with its agent and in MOST cases the agent will cancel when a landowner asks (but there is no law that says they must).

KeithP

frazzg said: 

Issue date 18th July, AOS was sent 27th July and confirmed to be received. 

With a Claim Issue Date of 18th July, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 21st August 2023 to file your Defence.

That's nearly three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

frazzg

Coupon-mad said:

You won't find that until you see the landowner agreement divulged the month before the hearing.  And that document may not even say it!

This is all about whatever agreement the principal has with its agent and in MOST cases the agent will cancel when a landowner asks (but there is no law that says they must).

I'm currently writing up my defence. Just to check, and this may be a stupid question, but should the defence just be straight facts about what happened on the day? Or should I include things such as the email to the vicar, the bad reviews the parking company receives naming their appeal website process not working/having no customer service contact or/and they say on their website that their fine amount follows AOS code of practice but there are multiple points where they don't follow the code guidelines?

Not sure whether to include these points in the first defence, in the witness statement, in both or in none. For example, I have screenshots of the AOS code of practice that says the company 'must have procedures for dealing efficiently and promptly with any communication from the motorist' aswell as 'You must make available any photographic evidence you have', both of which I can't do as they have no contact info whatsoever. I know I can only add the screenshot as evidence in the WS but should I even do that/mention that? and if so then where should I do that?

Thanks

KeithP

@frazzg, have you seen the template Defence thread yet?

Coupon-mad

I think mention everything briefly in defence; what happened on the day, did you appeal or complain, and you can say when you researched it, you were shocked to find several breaches of the BPA CoP and terrible reviews from other motorist victims.

YankeeBrit

Be careful when adding your own information for paras #2 and #3 that you don't give away too much. You are only defending against the PoC which are undoubtedly sparse, generic and inadequate.

The template defence already covers just about everything else that can be argued in your WS at a later date.

frazzg

YankeeBrit said:

Be careful when adding your own information for paras #2 and #3 that you don't give away too much. You are only defending against the PoC which are undoubtedly sparse, generic and inadequate.

The template defence already covers just about everything else that can be argued in your WS at a later date.

Ah I see, so treat it more as a defence against them in general rather than make it too specific to my personal appeal?