Refund via CC provider

Alan_R_786

Hello

I purchased some sunglasses for £145.90 on the 12th July 2023 via the Etsy sales platform (www. etsy.co.uk), from a seller who is based in Turkey.  I want a refund as the advert & description of the goods is miss-leading (not clear and unambiguous with the description of the item measurements) and thus not fit for purpose.

I requested a refund from the seller (18th July 2023), as the sunglasses do not fit me (based on the above reasoning) – which the seller rejected. I then had to escalate the matter into Etsy and provided pictures and the measurements of the sunglasses that differ from the shop advert & description. The seller subsequently sent of some pictures & measurements of a different pair of sunglasses, claiming that the measurements were correct.  In that correspondence they stated they do not know which model sunglasses were dispatched to me.  

Shop returns policy:

Returns & exchanges - Not accepted. But please contact me if you have problems with your order

Note: The seller is based in Turkey – however in their shop advert state that considered a professional seller (known as a trader) in the EU.  

Etsy Programme protection states:

Easily get help in the rare case that something goes wrong when shopping from a small business.

What's eligible for Etsy Purchase Protection:

·        Your order doesn't match the item description or photos

·        Your item arrived damaged

·        Your item didn't arrive or was lost in the mail

·        EU Directive on Consumer Rights - Our House Rules | Etsy

o   https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/eu-directive-on-consumer-rights/242644519829

Etsy have looked into the matter, and state that they cannot mediate further and that I should contact my credit card provider (MasterCard).   

Do I log this case with MasterCard as a credit card chargeback issue / Section 75 / other - TBC, and what legislation do I quote given that the sale was online, but with a seller based in Turkey who trades under in the EU i.e.

a.      Consumer Contracts Regulations - https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk

b.      https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/eu-directive-on-consumer-rights/242644519829

a.      Right to return an item within 14 days of receiving the item (from above)

Any other help and advice would be greatly appreciated. 

TIA

km1500

I believe I am right in saying that the above regulations you quote apply for UK sales only. since you bought from a Turkish seller then the consumer regulations applying in Turkey will be what you should look at

Except of course for the etsy terms and conditions can help but you say they have rejected your claim

you can try a chargeback with your card but since it is likely to be contested all you will likely find is that you get the money only for it to be taken sometime down the line when the seller contests the chargeback. in any case you may well find it declined straight away as I assume you paid etsy and then etsy paid the seller - sorry I'm not sure how etsy payment systems work in this regard.

this leaves section 75 but again you may find this fails if you did not pay the seller direct

Alan_R_786

Hello.  Thanks for the reply.  The seller is based in Turkey – however their shop profile states that they "are considered a professional seller (known as a trader) in the EU"; so would EU regulations apply? 

To that extent - I added the following link from the Etsy site - https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/eu-directive-on-consumer-rights/242644519829 and in particular the following terms - "Buyers residing in countries that are subject to these regulations have the right to return an item within 14 days of receiving the item"

The part I am unsure of is being in England post Brexit; what legislation can I use; unless we still are part of what is classed in the link above?

The invoice header indicates that I paid Esty Ireland UC.  If I paid Etsy - then do I have a claim against them, linked to their policy directive above?

km1500

No claim against etsy - they have done exactly what they are contracted to do. you paid etsy with your card and etsy carried out their obligations according to their terms of conditions and hence section 75 will fail.

that is the problem with these sites -  if you buy something from them they will protect you according to their buyer protection terms but if they side with the seller there is very little you can do

Alan_R_786

is the seller (a professional seller in the EU) then liable as they are not compliant with EU regulations (posted on the Etsy site - under the following heading; EU Directive on Consumer Rights - Our House Rules | Etsy)?

molerat

All well and good having all these rules but the problem is enforcing them outside of the country you reside in.  If Etsy won't enforce a refund, which would likely involve you returning the item at your expense, you are pretty much stuffed.

km1500

If they are liable (which they seem to dispute) then your remedy is to sue them in Turkey

born_again

Alan_R_786 said:

Hello

I purchased some sunglasses for £145.90 on the 12th July 2023 via the Etsy sales platform (www. etsy.co.uk), from a seller who is based in Turkey.  I want a refund as the advert & description of the goods is miss-leading (not clear and unambiguous with the description of the item measurements) and thus not fit for purpose.

I requested a refund from the seller (18th July 2023), as the sunglasses do not fit me (based on the above reasoning) – which the seller rejected. I then had to escalate the matter into Etsy and provided pictures and the measurements of the sunglasses that differ from the shop advert & description. The seller subsequently sent of some pictures & measurements of a different pair of sunglasses, claiming that the measurements were correct.  In that correspondence they stated they do not know which model sunglasses were dispatched to me.  

Shop returns policy:

Returns & exchanges - Not accepted. But please contact me if you have problems with your order

Note: The seller is based in Turkey – however in their shop advert state that considered a professional seller (known as a trader) in the EU.  

Etsy Programme protection states:

Easily get help in the rare case that something goes wrong when shopping from a small business.

What's eligible for Etsy Purchase Protection:

·        Your order doesn't match the item description or photos

·        Your item arrived damaged

·        Your item didn't arrive or was lost in the mail

·        EU Directive on Consumer Rights - Our House Rules | Etsy

o   https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/eu-directive-on-consumer-rights/242644519829

Etsy have looked into the matter, and state that they cannot mediate further and that I should contact my credit card provider (MasterCard).   

Do I log this case with MasterCard as a credit card chargeback issue / Section 75 / other - TBC, and what legislation do I quote given that the sale was online, but with a seller based in Turkey who trades under in the EU i.e.

a.      Consumer Contracts Regulations - https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk

b.      https://www.etsy.com/legal/policy/eu-directive-on-consumer-rights/242644519829

a.      Right to return an item within 14 days of receiving the item (from above)

Any other help and advice would be greatly appreciated. 

TIA

Your only hope is a chargeback.
But you have to prove what you ordered (so copy of webpage showing which glasses on &/or invoice showing exactly which make/design ordered.
Against photo's of which item you received.

Consumer regulations or country of purchase make no difference to a chargeback, as they are over & above these & simply regulations put in place by card companies.
But be aware retailer can reject & given that debit is against "Esty Ireland UC" they can turn round & say, no we were paid to move money to seller, as such we have done as required. So there is no "Not as described" case to answer. Or they could claim the money back from retailer & accept the chargeback.