New shower installation - options

ThisIsWeird

DanielDeronda said:

The make & model of my combi gas boiler is a Vaillant Ectotec Pro 24, on the wall in my lounge, as the kitchen wasn't really possible.

The make & model of my electric shower is a Triton Biarritz, obviously discontinued. On the wall in the bathroom on tiling.

The water flow from my bathroom taps is pretty decent.

I've cleaned the showerhead in white vinegar to reduce limescale but no visible improvement.

Thanks for the info.

That's an oldie all right! The water inlet is at the bottom-right? Most I've seen are top-left, but they were mostly Mira.

If you really just want a straight swap with another leccy, then check out where the water inlet is, to get one as close as possible. Alternatively, some makes and modes come with optional back boxes which bring the shower out another couple of inches, but this allows pipes and cables to be rerouted behind the shower to a new position.

If you decide to go 'combi' shower, then you'll have a couple of holes to fill where the old leccy one is - these look like a standard plain white tile, so good chance you can still get them, or near-as.

I'd personally go 'combi', just for the far superior shower. Yes, it comes with a couple of 'cons', one being you won't have a shower if the boiler is broken. But, in reality, how often does that happen, and for how long? I can't think of any other reason not to.

Your combi is a good make, and fully modulating, so should serve a thermostatic shower perfectly well.

For 'combi', you have two choices - wall or deck mounted shower mixers. Pros and cons discussed earlier.

One wee test, please: place a large pan under your bath tap spout, and turn on the cold FULL for 6 seconds (as accurately as you can). Measure the number of litres that came out. Repeat this for the hot tap. Might as well do it again with both! Report back, please.

ThisIsWeird

CSI_Yorkshire said:

That's not what it says.  The column label is "Length in insulation".  Not depth.

Eldi_Dos said:

So would it be good practice to enclose electric cables in a plastic trough with a lid before installing the recommended depth of insulation.
Or better to leave cables above the insulation.

In conduit, in contact with a joist/beam/the plasterboard, and above the insulation are all "better" (i.e. there is less loss of rating) than completely surrounded by insulation.

To get the full rating, it's "clipped directly onto an exposed surface (like the wall)".

All in the wiring regulations (mainly Appendix 4) - so the electrician who you consult should do the right maths and make sure the cable is the right size.

Hat eaten :-(

That's a wow. The risk, I presume, is a localised hot-spot where the cable runs through even a few inches of insulation?

ThisIsWeird

DanielDeronda said:

I've cleaned the showerhead in white vinegar to reduce limescale but no visible improvement.

Provided you allow for the required clearances - it'll be in the installation booklet - you could have that boiler boxed in to a cupboard. The wall light may need to move, tho'.

If the showerhead has the usual water 'jets' coming through, then it won't be an issue with that part. And you can always check for head blockages by simply removing it from the hose and checking the flow from there. Most likely, and al this time, it'll be a scaled heater inside the shower, an obsolete part, and wouldn't have been worth replacing anyway.

CSI_Yorkshire

ThisIsWeird said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

That's not what it says.  The column label is "Length in insulation".  Not depth.

Eldi_Dos said:

So would it be good practice to enclose electric cables in a plastic trough with a lid before installing the recommended depth of insulation.
Or better to leave cables above the insulation.

In conduit, in contact with a joist/beam/the plasterboard, and above the insulation are all "better" (i.e. there is less loss of rating) than completely surrounded by insulation.

To get the full rating, it's "clipped directly onto an exposed surface (like the wall)".

All in the wiring regulations (mainly Appendix 4) - so the electrician who you consult should do the right maths and make sure the cable is the right size.

Hat eaten :-(

That's a wow. The risk, I presume, is a localised hot-spot where the cable runs through even a few inches of insulation?

Exactly.  The heat can't get away from that bit of cable, the local temperature goes up, the insulation starts to overheat and degrade, then you end up with an electrical fault.

Doesn't happen instantly, and might not happen for months or years in the circumstance we discuss here (because even though a shower is powerful, it's not on that often or for that long).

DanielDeronda

ThisIsWeird said:

DanielDeronda said:

The make & model of my combi gas boiler is a Vaillant Ectotec Pro 24, on the wall in my lounge, as the kitchen wasn't really possible.

The make & model of my electric shower is a Triton Biarritz, obviously discontinued. On the wall in the bathroom on tiling.

The water flow from my bathroom taps is pretty decent.

I've cleaned the showerhead in white vinegar to reduce limescale but no visible improvement.

Thanks for the info.

That's an oldie all right! The water inlet is at the bottom-right? Most I've seen are top-left, but they were mostly Mira.

If you really just want a straight swap with another leccy, then check out where the water inlet is, to get one as close as possible. Alternatively, some makes and modes come with optional back boxes which bring the shower out another couple of inches, but this allows pipes and cables to be rerouted behind the shower to a new position.

If you decide to go 'combi' shower, then you'll have a couple of holes to fill where the old leccy one is - these look like a standard plain white tile, so good chance you can still get them, or near-as.

I'd personally go 'combi', just for the far superior shower. Yes, it comes with a couple of 'cons', one being you won't have a shower if the boiler is broken. But, in reality, how often does that happen, and for how long? I can't think of any other reason not to.

Your combi is a good make, and fully modulating, so should serve a thermostatic shower perfectly well.

For 'combi', you have two choices - wall or deck mounted shower mixers. Pros and cons discussed earlier.

One wee test, please: place a large pan under your bath tap spout, and turn on the cold FULL for 6 seconds (as accurately as you can). Measure the number of litres that came out. Repeat this for the hot tap. Might as well do it again with both! Report back, please.

Have tested the flow of water from my bath taps for 6 seconds: around 650ml for hot & 1.6L for cold.

And I do believe the water inlet is to the bottom right of the shower.

ThisIsWeird

DanielDeronda said:

ThisIsWeird said:

DanielDeronda said:

The make & model of my combi gas boiler is a Vaillant Ectotec Pro 24, on the wall in my lounge, as the kitchen wasn't really possible.

The make & model of my electric shower is a Triton Biarritz, obviously discontinued. On the wall in the bathroom on tiling.

The water flow from my bathroom taps is pretty decent.

I've cleaned the showerhead in white vinegar to reduce limescale but no visible improvement.

Thanks for the info.

That's an oldie all right! The water inlet is at the bottom-right? Most I've seen are top-left, but they were mostly Mira.

If you really just want a straight swap with another leccy, then check out where the water inlet is, to get one as close as possible. Alternatively, some makes and modes come with optional back boxes which bring the shower out another couple of inches, but this allows pipes and cables to be rerouted behind the shower to a new position.

If you decide to go 'combi' shower, then you'll have a couple of holes to fill where the old leccy one is - these look like a standard plain white tile, so good chance you can still get them, or near-as.

I'd personally go 'combi', just for the far superior shower. Yes, it comes with a couple of 'cons', one being you won't have a shower if the boiler is broken. But, in reality, how often does that happen, and for how long? I can't think of any other reason not to.

Your combi is a good make, and fully modulating, so should serve a thermostatic shower perfectly well.

For 'combi', you have two choices - wall or deck mounted shower mixers. Pros and cons discussed earlier.

One wee test, please: place a large pan under your bath tap spout, and turn on the cold FULL for 6 seconds (as accurately as you can). Measure the number of litres that came out. Repeat this for the hot tap. Might as well do it again with both! Report back, please.

Have tested the flow of water from my bath taps for 6 seconds: around 650ml for hot & 1.6L for cold.

And I do believe the water inlet is to the bottom right of the shower.

Thanks.

650ml/ 6 seconds = ~6,5 litres per minute. That's a bit low, and I cannot tell why that should be. This flow has, of course, gone through the boiler first, but with the cold delivering at least 16lpm to the boiler, I'd have expected a better hot output. It could be that the tap itself isn't opening fully, or that the mains pressure isn't brilliant, so the flow has dropped off as a result.

1.6L from the cold = 16 lpm, and that's ok. Again, it ain't brilliant, but it's fine. (You can repeat this test at the cold kitchen tap to get a better idea of the actually incoming mains flow.)

Anyhoo, even with that low hot flow, you can expect a combi-delivered shower to be twice as good as the electric shower, and hopefully even more.

Is fitting a bath shower mixer within your DIY capabilities? If not - if you need a plumber in any case - ask them to confirm what the output from a combi shower should be.

What are your thoughts? What are you more inclined towards doing?

DanielDeronda

ThisIsWeird said:

DanielDeronda said:

ThisIsWeird said:

DanielDeronda said:

The make & model of my combi gas boiler is a Vaillant Ectotec Pro 24, on the wall in my lounge, as the kitchen wasn't really possible.

The make & model of my electric shower is a Triton Biarritz, obviously discontinued. On the wall in the bathroom on tiling.

The water flow from my bathroom taps is pretty decent.

I've cleaned the showerhead in white vinegar to reduce limescale but no visible improvement.

Thanks for the info.

That's an oldie all right! The water inlet is at the bottom-right? Most I've seen are top-left, but they were mostly Mira.

If you really just want a straight swap with another leccy, then check out where the water inlet is, to get one as close as possible. Alternatively, some makes and modes come with optional back boxes which bring the shower out another couple of inches, but this allows pipes and cables to be rerouted behind the shower to a new position.

If you decide to go 'combi' shower, then you'll have a couple of holes to fill where the old leccy one is - these look like a standard plain white tile, so good chance you can still get them, or near-as.

I'd personally go 'combi', just for the far superior shower. Yes, it comes with a couple of 'cons', one being you won't have a shower if the boiler is broken. But, in reality, how often does that happen, and for how long? I can't think of any other reason not to.

Your combi is a good make, and fully modulating, so should serve a thermostatic shower perfectly well.

For 'combi', you have two choices - wall or deck mounted shower mixers. Pros and cons discussed earlier.

One wee test, please: place a large pan under your bath tap spout, and turn on the cold FULL for 6 seconds (as accurately as you can). Measure the number of litres that came out. Repeat this for the hot tap. Might as well do it again with both! Report back, please.

Have tested the flow of water from my bath taps for 6 seconds: around 650ml for hot & 1.6L for cold.

And I do believe the water inlet is to the bottom right of the shower.

Thanks.

650ml/ 6 seconds = ~6,5 litres per minute. That's a bit low, and I cannot tell why that should be. This flow has, of course, gone through the boiler first, but with the cold delivering at least 16lpm to the boiler, I'd have expected a better hot output. It could be that the tap itself isn't opening fully, or that the mains pressure isn't brilliant, so the flow has dropped off as a result.

1.6L from the cold = 16 lpm, and that's ok. Again, it ain't brilliant, but it's fine. (You can repeat this test at the cold kitchen tap to get a better idea of the actually incoming mains flow.)

Anyhoo, even with that low hot flow, you can expect a combi-delivered shower to be twice as good as the electric shower, and hopefully even more.

Is fitting a bath shower mixer within your DIY capabilities? If not - if you need a plumber in any case - ask them to confirm what the output from a combi shower should be.

What are your thoughts? What are you more inclined towards doing?

I am a total DIYphobe but have a plumber who I was happy with when he installed some new taps in the kitchen recently.

I think a bath/shower mixer combo is my best option. Don't seem to get many benefits from just replacing the electric shower.

I may look at refreshing the paintwork in the bathroom, the bath & ceramic floor tiling are both ok 

Can anyone send me links of a bath/shower mixer I can look at to see what it looks like?

ThisIsWeird

DanielDeronda said:

ThisIsWeird said:

DanielDeronda said:

ThisIsWeird said:

DanielDeronda said:

The make & model of my combi gas boiler is a Vaillant Ectotec Pro 24, on the wall in my lounge, as the kitchen wasn't really possible.

The make & model of my electric shower is a Triton Biarritz, obviously discontinued. On the wall in the bathroom on tiling.

The water flow from my bathroom taps is pretty decent.

I've cleaned the showerhead in white vinegar to reduce limescale but no visible improvement.

Thanks for the info.

That's an oldie all right! The water inlet is at the bottom-right? Most I've seen are top-left, but they were mostly Mira.

If you really just want a straight swap with another leccy, then check out where the water inlet is, to get one as close as possible. Alternatively, some makes and modes come with optional back boxes which bring the shower out another couple of inches, but this allows pipes and cables to be rerouted behind the shower to a new position.

If you decide to go 'combi' shower, then you'll have a couple of holes to fill where the old leccy one is - these look like a standard plain white tile, so good chance you can still get them, or near-as.

I'd personally go 'combi', just for the far superior shower. Yes, it comes with a couple of 'cons', one being you won't have a shower if the boiler is broken. But, in reality, how often does that happen, and for how long? I can't think of any other reason not to.

Your combi is a good make, and fully modulating, so should serve a thermostatic shower perfectly well.

For 'combi', you have two choices - wall or deck mounted shower mixers. Pros and cons discussed earlier.

One wee test, please: place a large pan under your bath tap spout, and turn on the cold FULL for 6 seconds (as accurately as you can). Measure the number of litres that came out. Repeat this for the hot tap. Might as well do it again with both! Report back, please.

Have tested the flow of water from my bath taps for 6 seconds: around 650ml for hot & 1.6L for cold.

And I do believe the water inlet is to the bottom right of the shower.

Thanks.

650ml/ 6 seconds = ~6,5 litres per minute. That's a bit low, and I cannot tell why that should be. This flow has, of course, gone through the boiler first, but with the cold delivering at least 16lpm to the boiler, I'd have expected a better hot output. It could be that the tap itself isn't opening fully, or that the mains pressure isn't brilliant, so the flow has dropped off as a result.

1.6L from the cold = 16 lpm, and that's ok. Again, it ain't brilliant, but it's fine. (You can repeat this test at the cold kitchen tap to get a better idea of the actually incoming mains flow.)

Anyhoo, even with that low hot flow, you can expect a combi-delivered shower to be twice as good as the electric shower, and hopefully even more.

Is fitting a bath shower mixer within your DIY capabilities? If not - if you need a plumber in any case - ask them to confirm what the output from a combi shower should be.

What are your thoughts? What are you more inclined towards doing?

I am a total DIYphobe but have a plumber who I was happy with when he installed some new taps in the kitchen recently.

I think a bath/shower mixer combo is my best option. Don't seem to get many benefits from just replacing the electric shower.

I may look at refreshing the paintwork in the bathroom, the bath & ceramic floor tiling are both ok 

Can anyone send me links of a bath/shower mixer I can look at to see what it looks like?

Good call, I think.
Thermostatic bath shower deck mixers start from just around £40, but almost certainly worth going better. 
I'm sure folk on here will have some recommendations.

BUFF

Just as examples

https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-atom-deck-mounted-thermostatic-bath-shower-mixer/598jp

https://www.screwfix.com/p/rize-wall-mounted-thermostatic-bath-shower-mixer/324fv you can simply add a pair of legs to this (or similar) to allow for deck mounting.

Other manufacturers & wholesalers/retailers are available :P

ThisIsWeird

I usually keep an eye on t'Bay for auction deals. I have a brand new Triton Leona wall-mounted thermo ready for my bathroom refurb - rainhead and handset. I think it was less than £70.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256162922543? Could be a bargain as these retail at £200+ - must be seriously good quality at that price! Obvs needs a rail and handset.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115870152546? Similar

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125800808618? Ditto

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192353289387? Treat yourself! (No idea of quality, but reviews seem good.)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385596887340? Nicer looking, and with easier handles. Retails at £250+ (needs min 1.5bar, tho')

That sort of stuff.