New shower installation - options

DanielDeronda

As part of a potentially wider refurbishment of my bathroom, I think my existing shower needs updating.

I currently have an old electric shower, a Triton Biarritz, which sits over the bath.

It works ok but water flow/pressure a bit patchy & I'm not sure how efficient it is in terms of my electricity bill.

I don't know whether just to upgrade to a newer electric shower or maybe get a mixer shower.

I have a combi boiler & I don't want to change the layout of my current bathroom.

And how much would a new shower cost? Don't want many bells & whistles but can afford more than basic/entry level.

Also on a wider subject, I will be looking to fully update my bathroom in the future, so updating tiling, paintwork & probably bath & toilet. What's a ballpark figure to do that work? Won't want to change layout as fairly compact space.

ThisIsWeird

The simplest and cheapest option is to keep with the electric shower option, and hopefully a newer model will not have the flow issues. How 'efficient' is  an electric shower? Ooh, almost 100% Ie, all the leccy it consumes is turned into hot water. Yes, leccy is three times the cost of gas, but I don't think that's enough reason for the much higher cost of a change to a boiler-fed shower.
Unless you do also want a much better shower? In which case a combi-fed mixer should give you 'three' times the performance for the 'same' energy cost. But a much higher initial installation cost.

First, what is your cold mains pressure and flow like?
Why is your leccy shower so variable in performance? Is it because it is old and faulty - in which case a replacement should sort it - or do you have fluctuating mains pressure issues - in which case your combi boiler will struggle too?
If the mains cable supplying your leccy shower is the larger 10mm2, then you should be able to fit the most powerful 10.8kW(?) unit, so that should be an improvement (provided your water supply is ok). How close is your CU ('fuse box') to your bathroom?)

A straight swap of the leccy shower will be, what, an hour's work, possibly require two trades, so, I dunno, £100-ish? A change to mixer supplied by your combi will require the hot pipe to be brought up to it, quite a bit of making good required to that wall, and then the mixer itself. Depends on how much you enjoy your showers, I guess. Personally, if I was planning a bathroom refurb for later, I'd leave it until then, and go 'mixer'. 
Cost of a refurb? No idea - you need to get quotes. Make list of everything you want, and ideally photos of how you'd like it 

CSI_Yorkshire

ThisIsWeird said:

If the mains cable supplying your leccy shower is the larger 10mm2, then you should be able to fit the most powerful 10.8kW(?) unit, so that should be an improvement (provided your water supply is ok). How close is your CU ('fuse box') to your bathroom?)

No no no no no.  "Should" here translates as "I would like to set my house on fire".

ThisIsWeird

CSI_Yorkshire said:

ThisIsWeird said:

If the mains cable supplying your leccy shower is the larger 10mm2, then you should be able to fit the most powerful 10.8kW(?) unit, so that should be an improvement (provided your water supply is ok). How close is your CU ('fuse box') to your bathroom?)

No no no no no.  "Should" here translates as "I would like to set my house on fire".

Eek! Sorry, I don't understand.

ThisIsWeird

DanielDeronda said:

I'm not sure how efficient it is in terms of my electricity bill.

I don't know whether just to upgrade to a newer electric shower or maybe get a mixer shower.

Just to clarify, electricity currently costs around three times that of gas. But, your combi will be consuming around three times more energy than the leccy shower as it'll be supplying around three times the water flow. So, to put it simply, running costs between the two shower types will be roughly similar, but you'll have a three times better shower with a mixer from the combi.

Yes, if saving energy was a big factor, you could always turn the mixer shower right down to reduce the flow and energy usage, but - you won't. 'Cos it's tooooo good :-)

Really, for a 5-min shower each day, the consumption costs won't be great. The only solid reason, I think, to go mixer-combi is for the (much) better shower. And your bathroom just looks more desirable.

In your situation, with a full revamp planned for the future, I'd replace the leccy with a similar model (or slightly larger if the cable can take it) for the time being, and plan for a swap to mixer for during the revamp.

You do, tho', need to find out the cause of the fluctuating shower pressure - is it your water mains supply (so that would affect your combi too), or a faulty shower?

CSI_Yorkshire

ThisIsWeird said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

ThisIsWeird said:

If the mains cable supplying your leccy shower is the larger 10mm2, then you should be able to fit the most powerful 10.8kW(?) unit, so that should be an improvement (provided your water supply is ok). How close is your CU ('fuse box') to your bathroom?)

No no no no no.  "Should" here translates as "I would like to set my house on fire".

Eek! Sorry, I don't understand.

10mm2 might be enough for a 10.8kW - the cable by itself would, on paper, be big enough for that amount of load.

Doesn't take any account of the installation method though.  If the cable was running through a notch in a joist with several others, or if it happened to run through some insulation (many people have added extra loft insulation covering cables), how much current the cable can carry without overloading goes down.

Some examples - if 5cm of the cable goes through loft insulation, you lose 11% of the capacity.  At 40cm of cable in insulation, you have lost 45% of the capability.  If there are 3 cables bunched together (and each is likely to be more than 30% loaded) then you lose 30% of the capability.

These things can easily be enough to make a "big enough" cable actually not big enough at all.

The shower manufacturers all ignore this in their online help pages - so many people assume it will all be ok - but they will all have something in the instructions that say "cable sizing is just a guide and your circumstances should be checked by a qualified electrician" or something like that.

Jonboy_1984

The other reason I prefer to keep showers electric is to have a bit of redundancy if the main water heating source fails (boiler breaks down/immersion heater element burns out).

(flannel washes with a kettle are OK for a couple of days but a reasonable shower makes a big difference IMO). 

benson1980

I would keep what you have if you are redoing bathroom in the future. Then, when refurbing you can add a hot water feed to get a mixer shower. 

Ball park these days for full bathroom refurb I would say minimum 10k for something semi decent (assuming you are getting trades in to do work). There is a fair bit to a refit to do it properly, even if keeping everything in the same place.

prettyandfluffy

If you are redoing your bathroom with a view to selling or adding value to your house, a separate shower is a must if you can accommodate it.

ThisIsWeird

CSI_Yorkshire said:

ThisIsWeird said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

ThisIsWeird said:

If the mains cable supplying your leccy shower is the larger 10mm2, then you should be able to fit the most powerful 10.8kW(?) unit, so that should be an improvement (provided your water supply is ok). How close is your CU ('fuse box') to your bathroom?)

No no no no no.  "Should" here translates as "I would like to set my house on fire".

Eek! Sorry, I don't understand.

10mm2 might be enough for a 10.8kW - the cable by itself would, on paper, be big enough for that amount of load.

Doesn't take any account of the installation method though.  If the cable was running through a notch in a joist with several others, or if it happened to run through some insulation (many people have added extra loft insulation covering cables), how much current the cable can carry without overloading goes down.

Some examples - if 5cm of the cable goes through loft insulation, you lose 11% of the capacity.  At 40cm of cable in insulation, you have lost 45% of the capability.  If there are 3 cables bunched together (and each is likely to be more than 30% loaded) then you lose 30% of the capability.

These things can easily be enough to make a "big enough" cable actually not big enough at all.

The shower manufacturers all ignore this in their online help pages - so many people assume it will all be ok - but they will all have something in the instructions that say "cable sizing is just a guide and your circumstances should be checked by a qualified electrician" or something like that.

Phew - good job I said 'should', then, and not 'will' :-)

(Seriously - a 2" run of cable in insulation reduces the carrying capacity by over 10%? A footandahalf is nearer 50%?!)

DanielDeronda

Thanks for all the comments so far.

The shower is at least 20yrs old, maybe older depending how longer the previous owner had it.

I live in a very hard water area so maybe the shower has just reached the end of its life. I recently changed the showerhead & that worked temporarily but got same flow problem now.

Will be very difficult to put the shower in a separate place to the bath, I'm in a compact flat.

And I definitely couldn't afford £10K for a full revamp, I have other priorities.

I'm not looking to sell the property imminently so it's more to make my property nicer to live in & accept visitors.

So it looks like a new shower but will need to decide if it's electric or mixer. Room might just need a lick of paint.