Is bank account restriction based on my nationality legal?

Hedgehog22

Hello,

I really hope I can get some advice here, as I can't find a clear answer anywhere else.

Halifax restricted my ISA Stocks & Shares andsShare dealing accounts because I'm a dual Russian/British national. The restriction is that I cannot use their online service and cannot purchase any non-GB denominated assets. They cited 'an EU regulation which prohibits Russian nationals, including dual nationals, from purchasing any EU or non GB-denominated assets'. 

I searched the EU's extensive list of Russian sanctions legislation, but couldn't find anything to confirm that restrictions apply to dual nationals. Even if such legislation exists, it seems to contradict the UK's sanction legislation (regulation 21) that defines 'people connected to Russia' as those on the sanction's list or residing in Russia.

As a British bank, is Halifax obliged to comply with both the EU and UK legislation, and what happens when they contradict each other?

Foreseeing some of the comments here, I was born in Russia, but have been living and working in the UK for over 20 years. I'm not on a sanctions list, rich, connected to Kremlin, support the Putin's regime or war, supply anything etc. In fact, I hate Putin and have been very vocal in opposing the war and the regime. People don't choose where they're born. There are over 70,000 Russians living in the UK and many of them left the country did this precisely to escape the regime and be able to live in a democratic.  I support restrictions and bans on those propping up Putin's regime and the war, but a blank ban based on nationality seems very unfair.

This situation seems to be widespread. If you google, you'll find lots of ridiculous stories of banking restrictions on Russians in the UK - from the 11yo ISA being closed, to the Putin regime critic's (who fundraises for Ukraine) account being frozen and a very recent one about Natwest closing Alexandra Tolstoy's accounts. No proper explanation is given. Seems to me like a witch hunt which regulators avert their eyes from.

My question is whether this restriction is legal and how can I challenge it. It's important to me because I've been made redundant recently and want to use my share dealing account to earn some income. I cannot transfer to another provider as some of the holdings are in loss and I will have to cash them to transfer.

Thanks in advance.

wmb194

Hedgehog22 said:

Hello,

I really hope I can get some advice here, as I can't find a clear answer anywhere else.

Halifax restricted my ISA Stocks & Shares andsShare dealing accounts because I'm a dual Russian/British national. The restriction is that I cannot use their online service and cannot purchase any non-GB denominated assets. They cited 'an EU regulation which prohibits Russian nationals, including dual nationals, from purchasing any EU or non GB-denominated assets'. 

I searched the EU's extensive list of Russian sanctions legislation, but couldn't find anything to confirm that restrictions apply to dual nationals. Even if such legislation exists, it seems to contradict the UK's sanction legislation (regulation 21) that defines 'people connected to Russia' as those on the sanction's list or residing in Russia.

As a British bank, is Halifax obliged to comply with both the EU and UK legislation, and what happens when they contradict each other?

Foreseeing some of the comments here, I was born in Russia, but have been living and working in the UK for over 20 years. I'm not on a sanctions list, rich, connected to Kremlin, support the Putin's regime or war, supply anything etc. In fact, I hate Putin and have been very vocal in opposing the war and the regime. People don't choose where they're born. There are over 70,000 Russians living in the UK and many of them left the country did this precisely to escape the regime and be able to live in a democratic.  I support restrictions and bans on those propping up Putin's regime and the war, but a blank ban based on nationality seems very unfair.

This situation seems to be widespread. If you google, you'll find lots of ridiculous stories of banking restrictions on Russians in the UK - from the 11yo ISA being closed, to the Putin regime critic's (who fundraises for Ukraine) account being frozen and a very recent one about Natwest closing Alexandra Tolstoy's accounts. No proper explanation is given. Seems to me like a witch hunt which regulators avert their eyes from.

My question is whether this restriction is legal and how can I challenge it. It's important to me because I've been made redundant recently and want to use my share dealing account to earn some income. I cannot transfer to another provider as some of the holdings are in loss and I will have to cash them to transfer.

Thanks in advance.

So it *will* allow you to buy shares in British domiciled companies and funds and anything it offers that's not domiciled in the EU e.g., US shares? If so, that's not the end of the world. You made a comment on another thread recently where you said iWeb wouldn't allow you to buy ETFs. This will be because most of them are domiciled in Ireland or Luxembourg.

Being, "in loss" doesn't stop you from selling and transferring, surely? I don't understand the issue here. Accepting losses is part of investing.

Hedgehog22

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

Hello,

I really hope I can get some advice here, as I can't find a clear answer anywhere else.

Halifax restricted my ISA Stocks & Shares andsShare dealing accounts because I'm a dual Russian/British national. The restriction is that I cannot use their online service and cannot purchase any non-GB denominated assets. They cited 'an EU regulation which prohibits Russian nationals, including dual nationals, from purchasing any EU or non GB-denominated assets'. 

I searched the EU's extensive list of Russian sanctions legislation, but couldn't find anything to confirm that restrictions apply to dual nationals. Even if such legislation exists, it seems to contradict the UK's sanction legislation (regulation 21) that defines 'people connected to Russia' as those on the sanction's list or residing in Russia.

As a British bank, is Halifax obliged to comply with both the EU and UK legislation, and what happens when they contradict each other?

Foreseeing some of the comments here, I was born in Russia, but have been living and working in the UK for over 20 years. I'm not on a sanctions list, rich, connected to Kremlin, support the Putin's regime or war, supply anything etc. In fact, I hate Putin and have been very vocal in opposing the war and the regime. People don't choose where they're born. There are over 70,000 Russians living in the UK and many of them left the country did this precisely to escape the regime and be able to live in a democratic.  I support restrictions and bans on those propping up Putin's regime and the war, but a blank ban based on nationality seems very unfair.

This situation seems to be widespread. If you google, you'll find lots of ridiculous stories of banking restrictions on Russians in the UK - from the 11yo ISA being closed, to the Putin regime critic's (who fundraises for Ukraine) account being frozen and a very recent one about Natwest closing Alexandra Tolstoy's accounts. No proper explanation is given. Seems to me like a witch hunt which regulators avert their eyes from.

My question is whether this restriction is legal and how can I challenge it. It's important to me because I've been made redundant recently and want to use my share dealing account to earn some income. I cannot transfer to another provider as some of the holdings are in loss and I will have to cash them to transfer.

Thanks in advance.

So it *will* allow you to buy shares in British domiciled companies and funds and anything it offers that's not domiciled in the EU e.g., US shares? If so, that's not the end of the world. You made a comment on another thread recently where you said iWeb wouldn't allow you to buy ETFs. This will be because most of them are domiciled in Ireland or Luxembourg.

Being, "in loss" doesn't stop you from selling and transferring, surely? I don't understand the issue here. Accepting losses is part of investing.

Should I wait for my bank accounts to get closed like (read about Alexandra Tolstoy & Natwest in Daily Mail today) for this to become a problem you would consider serious enough?

Customers should not be pushed by the bank to accept losses when they don't want to accept them.  I want to buy US denominated shares and be able to deal online - these were the services I signed up for.

The bigger problem that should not be ignored here is that banking services are removed on the basis of nationality in a supposedly democratic country.

wmb194

Hedgehog22 said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

Hello,

I really hope I can get some advice here, as I can't find a clear answer anywhere else.

Halifax restricted my ISA Stocks & Shares andsShare dealing accounts because I'm a dual Russian/British national. The restriction is that I cannot use their online service and cannot purchase any non-GB denominated assets. They cited 'an EU regulation which prohibits Russian nationals, including dual nationals, from purchasing any EU or non GB-denominated assets'. 

I searched the EU's extensive list of Russian sanctions legislation, but couldn't find anything to confirm that restrictions apply to dual nationals. Even if such legislation exists, it seems to contradict the UK's sanction legislation (regulation 21) that defines 'people connected to Russia' as those on the sanction's list or residing in Russia.

As a British bank, is Halifax obliged to comply with both the EU and UK legislation, and what happens when they contradict each other?

Foreseeing some of the comments here, I was born in Russia, but have been living and working in the UK for over 20 years. I'm not on a sanctions list, rich, connected to Kremlin, support the Putin's regime or war, supply anything etc. In fact, I hate Putin and have been very vocal in opposing the war and the regime. People don't choose where they're born. There are over 70,000 Russians living in the UK and many of them left the country did this precisely to escape the regime and be able to live in a democratic.  I support restrictions and bans on those propping up Putin's regime and the war, but a blank ban based on nationality seems very unfair.

This situation seems to be widespread. If you google, you'll find lots of ridiculous stories of banking restrictions on Russians in the UK - from the 11yo ISA being closed, to the Putin regime critic's (who fundraises for Ukraine) account being frozen and a very recent one about Natwest closing Alexandra Tolstoy's accounts. No proper explanation is given. Seems to me like a witch hunt which regulators avert their eyes from.

My question is whether this restriction is legal and how can I challenge it. It's important to me because I've been made redundant recently and want to use my share dealing account to earn some income. I cannot transfer to another provider as some of the holdings are in loss and I will have to cash them to transfer.

Thanks in advance.

So it *will* allow you to buy shares in British domiciled companies and funds and anything it offers that's not domiciled in the EU e.g., US shares? If so, that's not the end of the world. You made a comment on another thread recently where you said iWeb wouldn't allow you to buy ETFs. This will be because most of them are domiciled in Ireland or Luxembourg.

Being, "in loss" doesn't stop you from selling and transferring, surely? I don't understand the issue here. Accepting losses is part of investing.

Customers should not be pushed by the bank to accept losses when they don't want to accept them.  I want to buy US denominated shares and be able to deal online - these were the services I signed up for.

Crystallised or not, you've already made a loss. If you want to move on from iWeb to a broker that might deal with you it could be your only option.

Okay, so it won't allow you to trade US shares either? Is there anything it will allow? Is the restriction to dealing by telephone only?

Hedgehog22

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

Hello,

I really hope I can get some advice here, as I can't find a clear answer anywhere else.

Halifax restricted my ISA Stocks & Shares andsShare dealing accounts because I'm a dual Russian/British national. The restriction is that I cannot use their online service and cannot purchase any non-GB denominated assets. They cited 'an EU regulation which prohibits Russian nationals, including dual nationals, from purchasing any EU or non GB-denominated assets'. 

I searched the EU's extensive list of Russian sanctions legislation, but couldn't find anything to confirm that restrictions apply to dual nationals. Even if such legislation exists, it seems to contradict the UK's sanction legislation (regulation 21) that defines 'people connected to Russia' as those on the sanction's list or residing in Russia.

As a British bank, is Halifax obliged to comply with both the EU and UK legislation, and what happens when they contradict each other?

Foreseeing some of the comments here, I was born in Russia, but have been living and working in the UK for over 20 years. I'm not on a sanctions list, rich, connected to Kremlin, support the Putin's regime or war, supply anything etc. In fact, I hate Putin and have been very vocal in opposing the war and the regime. People don't choose where they're born. There are over 70,000 Russians living in the UK and many of them left the country did this precisely to escape the regime and be able to live in a democratic.  I support restrictions and bans on those propping up Putin's regime and the war, but a blank ban based on nationality seems very unfair.

This situation seems to be widespread. If you google, you'll find lots of ridiculous stories of banking restrictions on Russians in the UK - from the 11yo ISA being closed, to the Putin regime critic's (who fundraises for Ukraine) account being frozen and a very recent one about Natwest closing Alexandra Tolstoy's accounts. No proper explanation is given. Seems to me like a witch hunt which regulators avert their eyes from.

My question is whether this restriction is legal and how can I challenge it. It's important to me because I've been made redundant recently and want to use my share dealing account to earn some income. I cannot transfer to another provider as some of the holdings are in loss and I will have to cash them to transfer.

Thanks in advance.

So it *will* allow you to buy shares in British domiciled companies and funds and anything it offers that's not domiciled in the EU e.g., US shares? If so, that's not the end of the world. You made a comment on another thread recently where you said iWeb wouldn't allow you to buy ETFs. This will be because most of them are domiciled in Ireland or Luxembourg.

Being, "in loss" doesn't stop you from selling and transferring, surely? I don't understand the issue here. Accepting losses is part of investing.

Customers should not be pushed by the bank to accept losses when they don't want to accept them.  I want to buy US denominated shares and be able to deal online - these were the services I signed up for.

Crystallised or not, you've already made a loss. If you want to move on from iWeb to a broker that might deal with you it could be your only option.

Okay, so it won't allow you to trade US shares either? Is there anything it will allow? Is the restriction to dealing by telephone only?

A loss is only a loss when cashed. I believe that these holdings will recover. Can't trade any EU or US denominated assets. Telephone restriction is extremely inconvenient too when you want to trade daily. 

It's also the fear of my other accounts being restricted or closed. Blank banking restrictions based on your nationality in the 21st century? C'mon. 

The silly thing is that Halifax is relying on the EU legislation that actually excludes 'nationals and residents of EU Member States from the scope of the prohibitions'. But because the UK is not a member of the EU anymore, British/Russian dual nationals residing in the UK are not covered by exclusions. 

wmb194

Hedgehog22 said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

Hello,

I really hope I can get some advice here, as I can't find a clear answer anywhere else.

Halifax restricted my ISA Stocks & Shares andsShare dealing accounts because I'm a dual Russian/British national. The restriction is that I cannot use their online service and cannot purchase any non-GB denominated assets. They cited 'an EU regulation which prohibits Russian nationals, including dual nationals, from purchasing any EU or non GB-denominated assets'. 

I searched the EU's extensive list of Russian sanctions legislation, but couldn't find anything to confirm that restrictions apply to dual nationals. Even if such legislation exists, it seems to contradict the UK's sanction legislation (regulation 21) that defines 'people connected to Russia' as those on the sanction's list or residing in Russia.

As a British bank, is Halifax obliged to comply with both the EU and UK legislation, and what happens when they contradict each other?

Foreseeing some of the comments here, I was born in Russia, but have been living and working in the UK for over 20 years. I'm not on a sanctions list, rich, connected to Kremlin, support the Putin's regime or war, supply anything etc. In fact, I hate Putin and have been very vocal in opposing the war and the regime. People don't choose where they're born. There are over 70,000 Russians living in the UK and many of them left the country did this precisely to escape the regime and be able to live in a democratic.  I support restrictions and bans on those propping up Putin's regime and the war, but a blank ban based on nationality seems very unfair.

This situation seems to be widespread. If you google, you'll find lots of ridiculous stories of banking restrictions on Russians in the UK - from the 11yo ISA being closed, to the Putin regime critic's (who fundraises for Ukraine) account being frozen and a very recent one about Natwest closing Alexandra Tolstoy's accounts. No proper explanation is given. Seems to me like a witch hunt which regulators avert their eyes from.

My question is whether this restriction is legal and how can I challenge it. It's important to me because I've been made redundant recently and want to use my share dealing account to earn some income. I cannot transfer to another provider as some of the holdings are in loss and I will have to cash them to transfer.

Thanks in advance.

So it *will* allow you to buy shares in British domiciled companies and funds and anything it offers that's not domiciled in the EU e.g., US shares? If so, that's not the end of the world. You made a comment on another thread recently where you said iWeb wouldn't allow you to buy ETFs. This will be because most of them are domiciled in Ireland or Luxembourg.

Being, "in loss" doesn't stop you from selling and transferring, surely? I don't understand the issue here. Accepting losses is part of investing.

Customers should not be pushed by the bank to accept losses when they don't want to accept them.  I want to buy US denominated shares and be able to deal online - these were the services I signed up for.

Crystallised or not, you've already made a loss. If you want to move on from iWeb to a broker that might deal with you it could be your only option.

Okay, so it won't allow you to trade US shares either? Is there anything it will allow? Is the restriction to dealing by telephone only?

A loss is only a loss when cashed. I believe that these holdings will recover. Can't trade any EU or US denominated assets. Telephone restriction is extremely inconvenient too when you want to trade daily. 

It's also the fear of my other accounts being restricted or closed. Blank banking restrictions based on your nationality in the 21st century? C'mon. 

The silly thing is that Halifax is relying on the EU legislation that actually excludes 'nationals and residents of EU Member States from the scope of the prohibitions'. But because the UK is not a member of the EU anymore, British/Russian dual nationals residing in the UK are not covered by exclusions. 

So you *can* trade but only by phone and they need to be British domiciled?

The point I'm trying to make re selling at a loss is that you could sell, transfer the money to another broker and repurchase the exact same securities. Net/net you'd be in roughly the same position as you are now.

Iceburnmarko

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

Hello,

I really hope I can get some advice here, as I can't find a clear answer anywhere else.

Halifax restricted my ISA Stocks & Shares andsShare dealing accounts because I'm a dual Russian/British national. The restriction is that I cannot use their online service and cannot purchase any non-GB denominated assets. They cited 'an EU regulation which prohibits Russian nationals, including dual nationals, from purchasing any EU or non GB-denominated assets'. 

I searched the EU's extensive list of Russian sanctions legislation, but couldn't find anything to confirm that restrictions apply to dual nationals. Even if such legislation exists, it seems to contradict the UK's sanction legislation (regulation 21) that defines 'people connected to Russia' as those on the sanction's list or residing in Russia.

As a British bank, is Halifax obliged to comply with both the EU and UK legislation, and what happens when they contradict each other?

Foreseeing some of the comments here, I was born in Russia, but have been living and working in the UK for over 20 years. I'm not on a sanctions list, rich, connected to Kremlin, support the Putin's regime or war, supply anything etc. In fact, I hate Putin and have been very vocal in opposing the war and the regime. People don't choose where they're born. There are over 70,000 Russians living in the UK and many of them left the country did this precisely to escape the regime and be able to live in a democratic.  I support restrictions and bans on those propping up Putin's regime and the war, but a blank ban based on nationality seems very unfair.

This situation seems to be widespread. If you google, you'll find lots of ridiculous stories of banking restrictions on Russians in the UK - from the 11yo ISA being closed, to the Putin regime critic's (who fundraises for Ukraine) account being frozen and a very recent one about Natwest closing Alexandra Tolstoy's accounts. No proper explanation is given. Seems to me like a witch hunt which regulators avert their eyes from.

My question is whether this restriction is legal and how can I challenge it. It's important to me because I've been made redundant recently and want to use my share dealing account to earn some income. I cannot transfer to another provider as some of the holdings are in loss and I will have to cash them to transfer.

Thanks in advance.

So it *will* allow you to buy shares in British domiciled companies and funds and anything it offers that's not domiciled in the EU e.g., US shares? If so, that's not the end of the world. You made a comment on another thread recently where you said iWeb wouldn't allow you to buy ETFs. This will be because most of them are domiciled in Ireland or Luxembourg.

Being, "in loss" doesn't stop you from selling and transferring, surely? I don't understand the issue here. Accepting losses is part of investing.

Customers should not be pushed by the bank to accept losses when they don't want to accept them.  I want to buy US denominated shares and be able to deal online - these were the services I signed up for.

Crystallised or not, you've already made a loss. If you want to move on from iWeb to a broker that might deal with you it could be your only option.

Okay, so it won't allow you to trade US shares either? Is there anything it will allow? Is the restriction to dealing by telephone only?

A loss is only a loss when cashed. I believe that these holdings will recover. Can't trade any EU or US denominated assets. Telephone restriction is extremely inconvenient too when you want to trade daily. 

It's also the fear of my other accounts being restricted or closed. Blank banking restrictions based on your nationality in the 21st century? C'mon. 

The silly thing is that Halifax is relying on the EU legislation that actually excludes 'nationals and residents of EU Member States from the scope of the prohibitions'. But because the UK is not a member of the EU anymore, British/Russian dual nationals residing in the UK are not covered by exclusions. 

So you *can* trade but only by phone and they need to be British domiciled?

The point I'm trying to make re selling at a loss is that you could sell, transfer the money to another broker and repurchase the exact same securities. Net/net you'd be in roughly the same position as you are now.

You not understand hedgehog point and issue.  To hedgehog , Halifax is not only one doing that as my wife knows.  In fact some will not even open account for her now even through she British.  

wmb194

Iceburnmarko said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

wmb194 said:

Hedgehog22 said:

Hello,

I really hope I can get some advice here, as I can't find a clear answer anywhere else.

Halifax restricted my ISA Stocks & Shares andsShare dealing accounts because I'm a dual Russian/British national. The restriction is that I cannot use their online service and cannot purchase any non-GB denominated assets. They cited 'an EU regulation which prohibits Russian nationals, including dual nationals, from purchasing any EU or non GB-denominated assets'. 

I searched the EU's extensive list of Russian sanctions legislation, but couldn't find anything to confirm that restrictions apply to dual nationals. Even if such legislation exists, it seems to contradict the UK's sanction legislation (regulation 21) that defines 'people connected to Russia' as those on the sanction's list or residing in Russia.

As a British bank, is Halifax obliged to comply with both the EU and UK legislation, and what happens when they contradict each other?

Foreseeing some of the comments here, I was born in Russia, but have been living and working in the UK for over 20 years. I'm not on a sanctions list, rich, connected to Kremlin, support the Putin's regime or war, supply anything etc. In fact, I hate Putin and have been very vocal in opposing the war and the regime. People don't choose where they're born. There are over 70,000 Russians living in the UK and many of them left the country did this precisely to escape the regime and be able to live in a democratic.  I support restrictions and bans on those propping up Putin's regime and the war, but a blank ban based on nationality seems very unfair.

This situation seems to be widespread. If you google, you'll find lots of ridiculous stories of banking restrictions on Russians in the UK - from the 11yo ISA being closed, to the Putin regime critic's (who fundraises for Ukraine) account being frozen and a very recent one about Natwest closing Alexandra Tolstoy's accounts. No proper explanation is given. Seems to me like a witch hunt which regulators avert their eyes from.

My question is whether this restriction is legal and how can I challenge it. It's important to me because I've been made redundant recently and want to use my share dealing account to earn some income. I cannot transfer to another provider as some of the holdings are in loss and I will have to cash them to transfer.

Thanks in advance.

So it *will* allow you to buy shares in British domiciled companies and funds and anything it offers that's not domiciled in the EU e.g., US shares? If so, that's not the end of the world. You made a comment on another thread recently where you said iWeb wouldn't allow you to buy ETFs. This will be because most of them are domiciled in Ireland or Luxembourg.

Being, "in loss" doesn't stop you from selling and transferring, surely? I don't understand the issue here. Accepting losses is part of investing.

Customers should not be pushed by the bank to accept losses when they don't want to accept them.  I want to buy US denominated shares and be able to deal online - these were the services I signed up for.

Crystallised or not, you've already made a loss. If you want to move on from iWeb to a broker that might deal with you it could be your only option.

Okay, so it won't allow you to trade US shares either? Is there anything it will allow? Is the restriction to dealing by telephone only?

A loss is only a loss when cashed. I believe that these holdings will recover. Can't trade any EU or US denominated assets. Telephone restriction is extremely inconvenient too when you want to trade daily. 

It's also the fear of my other accounts being restricted or closed. Blank banking restrictions based on your nationality in the 21st century? C'mon. 

The silly thing is that Halifax is relying on the EU legislation that actually excludes 'nationals and residents of EU Member States from the scope of the prohibitions'. But because the UK is not a member of the EU anymore, British/Russian dual nationals residing in the UK are not covered by exclusions. 

So you *can* trade but only by phone and they need to be British domiciled?

The point I'm trying to make re selling at a loss is that you could sell, transfer the money to another broker and repurchase the exact same securities. Net/net you'd be in roughly the same position as you are now.

You not understand hedgehog point and issue.  To hedgehog , Halifax is not only one doing that as my wife knows.  In fact some will not even open account for her now even through she British.  

I do understand the issue. Hedgehog *is* allowed to trade British domiciled securities but *is not* allowed to trade securities in jurisdictions where Russians are prohibited from doing so i.e. it's a restriction, not a closure. It also isn't iWeb's/Halifax's fault - it isn't responsible for the actions of the EC/EU - and you also cannot blame institutions for being very cautious because the cost to them in fines would be far larger than the occasional £5 they'll earn from you when you make a trade.

"Some will not open an account for her..." So some will? So it's not the end of the world, then, either? There are plenty of threads where people complain about banks not opening accounts for them and they're not to do with them being Russian: they don't have to give you an account.