Received letter from debt collector for private parking fine, PCN sent to wrong address

ProfessorBean

Hi there, last week I received a 'Notice of Debt Recovery' from Direct Collections Bailiffs LTD (DCBL). They are acting on behalf of BaySentry Solutions LTD. The letter was sent 50 days after the date of contravention, and is the first form of communication I have received, of any kind. The letter claims I was sent a PCN in May 2023 for 'Return Within NO Return Period', after I used a private car park outside of a supermarket, and they are claiming I have an unpaid parking charge of £170.

There are a couple of things to mention here. Firstly, I did indeed arrive at the car park in question before realising I had driven to the wrong destination, and I then left. Within a 2hr period, I did indeed return to that same car park. Secondly, in email correspondence with DCBL I have learned the owner of the car park (BaySentry) sent a PCN to my previous address. I therefore was completely unaware of any PCN until I received this debt collection letter. 

Upon reading the NEWBIES page on this forum, I used one of the email formats to respond to DCBL. Here is what I wrote:

'Re PCN number: X

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since I have not received a PCN in any form, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

To date I have not received a PCN nor was a PCN left on my windscreen. The specified Date of Contravention was 22nd of May 2023, and your Notice of Debt Recovery was sent on the 11th of July 2023. Since this is the very first letter that I have received on the matter and the Date of Letter is over 14 days after the alleged date of contravention, you are therefore in breach of the Protection of Freedoms Acts 2012, Schedule 4 Paragraph 9 (4,5). I will be reporting this breach of the POFA to Parking On Private Land Appeals.

Name and postal address of registered keeper of vehicle: [name and address here]'

And here is there response:

'Dear xx, 

We write further to your recent correspondence.

We are instructed by our Client to recover the outstanding balance in relation to the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued to you.

Please note, the timeframe in which to appeal the PCN expired prior to our instruction. You were given the opportunity to lodge an appeal when the initial Notice was issued to you.

At the time of the contravention our client issued correspondence to you at the address of [MY PREVIOUS ADDRESS HERE].  If you were the registered keeper of the above vehicle at the time of the contravention, it would be your responsibility and a legal requirement to update the vehicle logbook with your current address with the DVLA. Our client cannot be held accountable for mail being issued to an address that you no longer reside at.

As the person named by our Client, you remain liable for the outstanding balance.'

I am writing this post after receiving the above response and wondering where I go from here. It is clear that they sent the PCN to the wrong address which is why I never knew about it. To the best of my knowledge, I updated my address when I updated my direct debit for my vehicle tax with the DVLA. However it is possible I only updated my direct debit and did not inform the DVLA of the address change through the proper channels. At this point I am led to wonder how they got my correct address if they originally sent the PCN to the incorrect address? I assume they have access to some sort of 3rd party that is allowed to share my information...?

You'll see through my email correspondence I asked them for actual evidence of the contravention through the form of a photograph of my vehicle but they have not provided anything. 

Final thing to add is the letter states that if I 'fail to contact us, we will recommend to our client the commencement of legal action against you'.

Do I have a chance here to fight this or am I going to have to pay up? Many thanks for any help in advance. 

Coupon-mad

BaySentry don't own the car park.

The PCN went to the address on your logbook which has not been updated. Do that now!

Do nothing else except come back here in August please, because the Govt (DLUHC) are about to announce the final stages of regulating this rogue industry and will be publishing a draft Assessment and detailed analysis and calling for evidence.  

You will want your voice heard I'm sure!  We will be all over it and publication by the DLUHC is now overdue.

What do you need to know about 'ignore the threatograms' stage which is covered (with links to photos) in the 4th post of the Announcement thread pinned at the top of this forum: NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST?

ProfessorBean

Coupon-mad said:

BaySentry don't own the car park.

The PCN went to the address on your logbook which has not been updated. Do that now!

Do nothing else except come back here in August please, because the Govt (DLUHC) are about to announce the final stages of regulating this rogue industry and will be publishing a draft Assessment and detailed analysis and calling for evidence.  

You will want your voice heard I'm sure!  We will be all over it and publication by the DLUHC is now overdue.

What do you need to know about 'ignore the threatograms' stage which is covered (with links to photos) in the 4th post of the Announcement thread pinned at the top of this forum: NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST?

Thank you for the response! I've gotten a second letter (exactly the same) but I will ignore until the Govt announcement.

YankeeBrit

ProfessorBean said:

Thank you for the response! I've gotten a second letter (exactly the same) but I will ignore until the Govt announcement.

Yes, you continue to ignore all correspondence from debt collectors. They are not a party to the contract you have allegedly breached with Bay Sentry. Therefore, continue to ignore them, ad nauseam.

Did you follow the advice given by @Coupon-mad to read the Newbies/FAQ thread? Did you update your V5C with your current address?

You should also email the Bay Sentry DPO and instruct them to "erase" your old address and update their records with your current address. Whilst the debt collectors may have made a soft search of your credit file for a current address, that does not necessarily translate into Bay Sentry doing the same. If they decide to file a claim to an old address, you could receive a CCJ by default. If you move any time in the next 6 years, you should update them again.

FYI, this is the email address for their DPO: privacy@baysentry.co.uk

Coupon-mad

ProfessorBean said:

Coupon-mad said:

BaySentry don't own the car park.

The PCN went to the address on your logbook which has not been updated. Do that now!

Do nothing else except come back here in August please, because the Govt (DLUHC) are about to announce the final stages of regulating this rogue industry and will be publishing a draft Assessment and detailed analysis and calling for evidence.  

You will want your voice heard I'm sure!  We will be all over it and publication by the DLUHC is now overdue.

What do you need to know about 'ignore the threatograms' stage which is covered (with links to photos) in the 4th post of the Announcement thread pinned at the top of this forum: NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST?

Thank you for the response! I've gotten a second letter (exactly the same) but I will ignore until the Govt announcement.

But it's already published, end of July. The forum is discussing it:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6463361/dluhc-private-parking-code-government-launches-call-for-evidence-discussion-thread/p6

Please read it and the IA itself, and learn about the need to respond to the private parking draft Impact Assessment this month

You want to help us change the law?

To be clear, we are nearly there; it's not a petition or some weak campaign, it's a final push on a law already passed, to cap the £PCN levels and ban the fake DRA fees.

The Government has a Call for Evidence open right now.

We are also wanting photos of unmanaged car parks and Asda/Tesco/Sainsburys £70 signs or Hospital £50 or £60 deterrents (or car parks with broken signs) please.

Post your pics of "no deterrent" or "low deterrent" (signs no more than £70) on that thread please.

ProfessorBean

YankeeBrit said:

ProfessorBean said:

Thank you for the response! I've gotten a second letter (exactly the same) but I will ignore until the Govt announcement.

Yes, you continue to ignore all correspondence from debt collectors. They are not a party to the contract you have allegedly breached with Bay Sentry. Therefore, continue to ignore them, ad nauseam.

Did you follow the advice given by @Coupon-mad to read the Newbies/FAQ thread? Did you update your V5C with your current address?

You should also email the Bay Sentry DPO and instruct them to "erase" your old address and update their records with your current address. Whilst the debt collectors may have made a soft search of your credit file for a current address, that does not necessarily translate into Bay Sentry doing the same. If they decide to file a claim to an old address, you could receive a CCJ by default. If you move any time in the next 6 years, you should update them again.

FYI, this is the email address for their DPO: privacy@baysentry.co.uk

Thanks @YankeeBrit . I've updated my V5C and attempted to update Bay Sentry but the email returned as undeliverable. I'll search for their current email address.

Just as an update, I received a new letter, this time a 'Notice of Intended Legal Action' which I am ignoring as advised. 

Le_Kirk

That is the correct e-mail address for the DPO and/or complaints according to my records and according to the privacy policy on their website.

UncleThomasCobley

A complaint to the ICO about that email address is in order.

ProfessorBean

Hey, I have some updates from this case and a new case i'd like to discuss further. 

Original Case Detailed Above
Unfortunately, due to my own unwillingness to engage with these letters and because I thought the DLUHC Private Parking Code situation would stop it, the initial case on this thread has reached Letter of Claim stage. I have however updated my V5C and address.

Sender: DCBLegal
Letter date: 12.08.2024
Letter type: 'Letter of Claim'
Client: BaySentry Solutions Ltd

I have read through the NEWBIES thread again to familiarise myself with the process. I believe i'm at 'SMALL CLAIM?' stage from the @Coupon-mad comment in 2014.

I am planning on sending the following email to info@dcblegal.co.uk following the suggested base format, unless anyone here has any notes?

---
Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. ############
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: BaySentry Solutions Ltd

I refer to your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
[Correct address here]

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.
I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully

My name (owner of vehicle)
My address (registered address of vehicle)
---

I also plan on sending each retailer that is connected to the car park in question an email about never giving them my custom again because of this ongoing case, in an attempt to get them to stop it from progressing. 

New Case Detailed Below
DCBL seem to love me, I have picked up another PCN for 'No Valid Parking Session' in May 2023. I started receiving letters titles 'Notice of Intended Legal Action Unpaid Parking Charge £170'. I never received the PCN due to my previous mistake of not updating my address after moving. That is all sorted now, but that mistake has led to me missing two PCNs.

This one, I hope, will be a little easier as it's for not telling a Holiday Inn hotel that I had my car in the car park using their iPad automated system. I happen to be a Silver Member at this hotel and stay with them regularly and so I assume I'll be able to email them, politely complaining about the charge and get them to cancel it.

It was over a year ago now and I don't remember the specific stay, but I assume one of two things happened: 
- I either arrived late and forgot to add my car to the system, waking up in the morning and realising the mistake, putting the car in the system but then not telling anyone, so they just see that my car was not registered for one night.
- or I tried to register the car for the correct amount of nights I was staying but simply made a human error and put 2 nights instead of 3 (for example)

In any case, the last letter I received on this debt collection was 02.07.2024 so I was going to follow the NEWBIES thread and email collections@dcbltd.com the following:

---
Re PCN number: ####

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Yours faithfully,

My name (owner of vehicle)
My address (registered address of vehicle)
---

Just wanted to ask if i'm on the right track or getting this completely wrong before sending both emails?

Thanks 

Gr1pr

With the old case, any new changes last year or this year, or more likely to be next year, were not going to change its path , so the delays dont change the process for you, or for any old or current cases, there won't be any changes in the law in England and Wales, the last law was back in 2019

Never, never engage with debt collectors, regardless, it's a no brainer, you just IGNORE debt collectors 

As for the new case, if its a different case and different location, just start a new thread with it 

But at the LoC stage, just follow the newbies sticky thread, post 2, ditto for any court claim 

LDast

ProfessorBean said:In any case, the last letter I received on this debt collection was 02.07.2024 so I was going to follow the NEWBIES thread and email collections@dcbltd.com the following:

---
Re PCN number: ####

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper...

Absolutely NOT!!!! You are wayyyy past any appeal stage and why do you think DCBL would care one iota about your appeal? They are debt collectors and if you have properly read the Newbies/FAQ thread, you should know by now that you NEVER, EVER, EVER communicate with uselsss debt collectors, especially as you are planning to do above!

Start a new thread for your new case.