time of day for a payment received by lender to be considered late?

johnqw

Does anyone know this (maybe for MBNA or Halifax)? Is it regulated across lenders? I haven't found it mentioned in any of their T&Cs and a search on this forums didn't really clarify it.

Does "due date" imply that payments are accepted (received) on the due date as well, until some reasonable time of day? Or does it imply it must be received before 00:00 of the due date? Is it at the lender's discretion? 

In the US it seems payment are accepted until 5pm on the due date, or next business day, for all lenders.

p.s. I'm aware I can call each lender to ask; and that I can setup DD to avoid late payments, etc - the question isn't about that.

Jami74

NatWest and RBS bank accounts are 2pm for payments to be received, ie if you go overdrawn you have until 2pm on the same day to add funds before it's considered overdrawn and charges start to apply. Their balances are updated overnight between midnight and 2am, for example when receiving wages. I don't know if these times also apply to their credit cards though, it probably says in the T&C's.

DullGreyGuy

johnqw said:

Does anyone know this (maybe for MBNA or Halifax)? Is it regulated across lenders? I haven't found it mentioned in any of their T&Cs and a search on this forums didn't really clarify it.

Does "due date" imply that payments are accepted (received) on the due date as well, until some reasonable time of day? Or does it imply it must be received before 00:00 of the due date? Is it at the lender's discretion? 

In the US it seems payment are accepted until 5pm on the due date, or next business day, for all lenders.

p.s. I'm aware I can call each lender to ask; and that I can setup DD to avoid late payments, etc - the question isn't about that.

Are you talking about credit cards or other banking products?

The T&Cs need to stipulate the requirements and so in principle it could vary by product not just by bank but in practice at least families of products are likely to be similar. If there is no stipulation then technically it would be 23:59:59 because any time before that would be within the day however there are practical considerations, certain payment types take time and may have a much earlier cut off time in the day.

You also need to check what the requirement is... is it cleared funds by the payment date? This may mean for certain payment methods the deadline is actually a couple of days before.

AmEx are slightly irritating in that they state that debit card payments online are typically applied immediately (so you can go to 23:59:59) but at times may take up to 3 days and so its a roll of the dice if you leave it to the last minute. Personally I've always found work hour payments go through straight away and its the 11pm ones that have more issues and more likely to trip into the next day. 

Volcane

Santander are 2pm too.

born_again

johnqw said:

Does anyone know this (maybe for MBNA or Halifax)? Is it regulated across lenders? I haven't found it mentioned in any of their T&Cs and a search on this forums didn't really clarify it.

Does "due date" imply that payments are accepted (received) on the due date as well, until some reasonable time of day? Or does it imply it must be received before 00:00 of the due date? Is it at the lender's discretion? 

In the US it seems payment are accepted until 5pm on the due date, or next business day, for all lenders.

p.s. I'm aware I can call each lender to ask; and that I can setup DD to avoid late payments, etc - the question isn't about that.

If you are talking credit cards, then do not think any provider has times listed. Unlike for a Bank account where they do & varies across the board.
Credit card systems are not live, like a normal bank account. Most update overnight & may not over weekends.

Due Date. I always take as the payments has to have hit the account before that date. Then again I aways play safe. Last thing you need is a payment system or card issue to delay payment.

While I know you were not referring to DD's. MSE advice is to have the min set up, at least that way you are covered for issues.

[Deleted User]

Jami74 said:

NatWest and RBS bank accounts are 2pm for payments to be received, ie if you go overdrawn you have until 2pm on the same day to add funds before it's considered overdrawn and charges start to apply. Their balances are updated overnight between midnight and 2am, for example when receiving wages. I don't know if these times also apply to their credit cards though, it probably says in the T&C's.

The afternoon option is really a 'second chance' as strictly speaking you should have cleared funds from midnight to cover the primary payment attempt in the morning (usually 3-8 am)

As for things like credit cards, branch based payments will have their own processing cut off and Faster Payment is usually anytime up to 23.59 that meets their cut off for overnight batch processing.

johnqw

For those who asked - yes the question is about credit cards (i thought it would be implied by posting in the credit cards forum).

I can now confirm that for all credit cards from Lloyds, Halifax, MBNA - the deadline is 23:59:59 on the due date for it to reach the lender, with the following specifics:

- if the payment is made by debit card using the lender's online interface then you can make it seconds before 23:59:59, even if it clears/settles after 1 business day, because these particular lenders (all under Lloyds) take the time the payment was authorized (not cleared), for which these lenders give a clear record of the time paid and payment reference number, down to the second, when the payment is made; useful for inquiries/recourse I guess.

- if the payment is made by faster payment (FP) then best make it before 21:59:59 just to ensure it reaches the lender because FP is only guaranteed within 2h (it is normally seconds, but still). This apparently includes making the payment from the online banking account if you have both a ccurrent account and a credit card under the same online banking interface (e.g. Halifax or Lloyds, but not MBNA) as it's still a FP that's actually executed. There may be more recourse in this case if it is indeed made before 23:59:59 but reaches the CC account later, as the same institution has records of both payment made and payment received times.

Good to know. Basically, payment by debit card is actually safer, at least with these 3 lenders.

I might call other lenders to ask, and will post here.

born_again

FP is actually only guaranteed, by the end of the next working day.

Normally, a Faster Payment arrives within minutes, although sometimes it can take up to two hours. A Faster Payment will always be credited by the end of the following business day, assuming you're making the payment to another bank or building society that's also a member of the Faster Payments scheme.

johnqw

That's the Payment Services Directive, which refers to mobile, internet or phone banking, in that they must arrive by the end of the following business day at the latest. An upper bound for that entire class of transfers.

An FP transfer itself is always up to 2h, irrespective of day of week or time of day. Any possible longer delays are due to operations outside of the FP system, e.g. the bank/EMI running checks internally before/after the FP transfer took place, or operating holding accounts and takes time to move the funds before/after the FP transfer, or it accesses the FP system in daily batches, etc. Banks who confirm in writing that their FP time is up to 2h without disclaimers can be held to account (well, theoretically, i don't want to get into what material the ombudsman considers relevant or fair, let alone the courts...).

Anyway, I've gone off-topic. I'm sure this has been dissected elsewhere in more detail