Can my colleague discuss my flexible working contract with my manager?

Marcon

throughtheblue said:

Marcon said:

throughtheblue said:

Emmia said:

The request by your colleague, if it is successful won't remove /affect your previously agreed flexible working arrangement. 

Your employer presumably doesn't say X number of employees may have this arrangement, so a new person getting it means that someone else (i.e. you)
loses it... The decision to grant or not is done on a case by case basis, and your colleague will need to present their case, just as you presumably presented yours previously.

I'm going to be honest, I don't really understand why you're getting worked up about this.

Concern is different to getting worked up, and also I think it's difficult to assess on a forum if a poster is getting worked up.

For context, I've arrived at work, to be indirectly told by a colleague that if they don't get their flexible work arrangement approved, then they will sound off about other people's arrangements. Really, my question should've been, 'how do a deal with an unprofessional colleague who wants to drag other colleagues into their requests'. Obviously there are nuances and from yours and others answers nothing needs to happen yet, but I'm preparing myself for more unprofessional behaviour if their request isn't approved. 

The fact you're posting at all, and the way you've phrased your posts, gives a pretty clear indication that you are reacting rather strongly to what your colleague has said. In your opening post you were clear that they had 'said to you', whereas now it's 'told indirectly'.

The way to 'deal' with the colleague is to make it clear you really don't want to discuss the matter if they try to raise it with you - and then it's between your colleague and 'management'.

It's not unprofessional to try any tactics someone thinks might advance their cause; what would be unprofessional is the company discussing your situation with your colleague.

Nothing has changed there. Yes, the person has 'said to me' they will bring up others flexible working arrangements if unsuccessful, but they said it with a level of resentment. They didn't say, 'if it's unsuccessful, then I may ask for clarity about wider arrangements in the department'. It is that it should be approved, because other people have it, and if it doesn't then other people's arrangement will be used as leverage by them.

I accept the point about making it clear that I'm not willing to discuss it. Ironically, I would be if the topic didn't cause a sense of entitlement in them. (My interpretation).

I don't disagree with anyone advancing their cause, but I found the comment aimed at my arrangement unprofessional. We have parents in the department that start work slightly later due to dropping kids off at school. If I said to one of them, 'I've applied to start later, if it's not approved then I'm going to bring up yours and others arrangements, because I should be entitled to it'. In this case, I don't have children and can loosely identify why that arrangement is in place (still might mean I can get it). This person, in question, is choosing to ignore that there may be specific circumstances as to why other people have the arrangements that they do.

They're perfectly entitled to do so. You can't control what arguments people will use to back up their request for something, so why waste time and energy attempting to do just that? It's for your employer to decide whether or not they carry any weight.

 throughtheblue said:

Had a word with another senior staff member and just said I don't appreciate the way in which said colleague is expressing themselves on the topic. For now, whilst it's being reviewed, it should hopefully be a bit quieter. If it happens again, I'll say to the manager I don't think it's appropriate to bring up others arrangements in an open environment where people don't want to be drawn into it.

I'd be thoroughly irritated if someone came to me with what frankly sounds like a playground complaint of 'not fair!'. OK, so you're worried about your own arrangements coming under scrutiny - but again, there's nothing you can do about it, and all you are doing is drawing attention to the matter. The way to preserve the status quo for yourself is to do an excellent job, thus ensuring your employer isn't going to dispense with your services - or the flexibly you currently enjoy  - any time soon.

In short, stop fretting about something which is a regular occurrence in offices and completely outside your control.

theoretica

throughtheblue said:

I don't disagree with anyone advancing their cause, but I found the comment aimed at my arrangement unprofessional. We have parents in the department that start work slightly later due to dropping kids off at school. If I said to one of them, 'I've applied to start later, if it's not approved then I'm going to bring up yours and others arrangements, because I should be entitled to it'. In this case, I don't have children and can loosely identify why that arrangement is in place (still might mean I can get it). This person, in question, is choosing to ignore that there may be specific circumstances as to why other people have the arrangements that they do.

Actually, the legislation around flexible working is that anyone may apply and should be fairly assessed - and the reasons for refusing it are all business reasons. 'But you don't have children' is not a valid reason and would probably be illegal discrimination.  An exception would be a reasonable adjustment made for disability.

Dakta

I understand your concern - obviously you want your privacy, you don't want to be subject to scrutiny as per your arrangements, you don't want to be used as leverage and you don't want your own situation to be compromised by others all piling in and wanting the same which you could have concerns may lead to management curtailing your arrangement. 

Realistically though the other posters are right - the colleague can pretty much act on any information they have to further their interests, the employer should contain this to reasonable discussion (i.e it might be fair to acknowledge an arrangement exists especially if or as its likely to be common knowledge but they shouldn't delve into it). You could raise a greivance if you think it's gone too far.

That said, I'm a big believer in fairness in the workplace and if someone was denied a reasonable flexibility when someone else got it, whilst the reasoning may not be open to public discussion I do think it's fair to highlight that someone else does, because it might encourage management to consider it.

At the end of the day all you can do is look after your own interests, which is technically what you're doing by being concerned but you can't stop an employee speaking out ultimately, but you can react to it by means of greivance if you feel it's gone too far after the fact.


Also consider the potential risk of being a double edged sword, as we could fall into the trap of judging other people's validity for flexible arrangements and that's a road that shouldn't be ventured.

We have parents in the department that start work slightly later due to dropping kids off at school. If I said to one of them, 'I've applied to start later, if it's not approved then I'm going to bring up yours and others arrangements, because I should be entitled to it'.

I'd consider this fair game really, having kids is very much a personal arrangement and if a company is prepared to be flexible to allow for someones personal conveniences (which i would applaud by the way)  iI would then (and quite reasonably) expect the company to consider my own conveniences with such a request even if it's not to pick up a child.  A refusal could actually be quite brutally unfair as It's not like being a parent is a disability or medical condition, so yeah, in such a scenario totally raise the fact. People without kids have every right to feel aggrieved if shown less flexibility than those that do.

throughtheblue

Dakta said:

I understand your concern - obviously you want your privacy, you don't want to be subject to scrutiny as per your arrangements, you don't want to be used as leverage and you don't want your own situation to be compromised by others all piling in and wanting the same which you could have concerns may lead to management curtailing your arrangement. 

Realistically though the other posters are right - the colleague can pretty much act on any information they have to further their interests, the employer should contain this to reasonable discussion (i.e it might be fair to acknowledge an arrangement exists especially if or as its likely to be common knowledge but they shouldn't delve into it). You could raise a greivance if you think it's gone too far.

That said, I'm a big believer in fairness in the workplace and if someone was denied a reasonable flexibility when someone else got it, whilst the reasoning may not be open to public discussion I do think it's fair to highlight that someone else does, because it might encourage management to consider it.

At the end of the day all you can do is look after your own interests, which is technically what you're doing by being concerned but you can't stop an employee speaking out ultimately, but you can react to it by means of greivance if you feel it's gone too far after the fact.


Also consider the potential risk of being a double edged sword, as we could fall into the trap of judging other people's validity for flexible arrangements and that's a road that shouldn't be ventured.

We have parents in the department that start work slightly later due to dropping kids off at school. If I said to one of them, 'I've applied to start later, if it's not approved then I'm going to bring up yours and others arrangements, because I should be entitled to it'.

I'd consider this fair game really, having kids is very much a personal arrangement and if a company is prepared to be flexible to allow for someones personal conveniences (which i would applaud by the way)  iI would then (and quite reasonably) expect the company to consider my own conveniences with such a request even if it's not to pick up a child.  A refusal could actually be quite brutally unfair as It's not like being a parent is a disability or medical condition, so yeah, in such a scenario totally raise the fact. People without kids have every right to feel aggrieved if shown less flexibility than those that do.

Thanks for the input and I will take this onboard.

My point about flexibility in the case of parenting was just an example of saying because a fair adjustment has been made for them, doesn't necessarily mean I would think one should automatically be made for me and I'd discuss this with the manager instead of making statements in an open workplace, before anything has been concluded, (which is what my colleague is doing).

Obviously individuals should advocate for their own interests and needs, I understand they will make their own conclusions and perhaps challenge current arrangements to push their case. I guess my own preference would be to wait for the decision to be reviewed and engage with the manager on the topic, and avoid potentially provoking a response from employees that shouldn't have much to do with the process.

Thanks to people that have contributed. I will take advice from it and apply it to the situation if it continues.

Marcon

throughtheblue said:

Dakta said:

I understand your concern - obviously you want your privacy, you don't want to be subject to scrutiny as per your arrangements, you don't want to be used as leverage and you don't want your own situation to be compromised by others all piling in and wanting the same which you could have concerns may lead to management curtailing your arrangement. 

Realistically though the other posters are right - the colleague can pretty much act on any information they have to further their interests, the employer should contain this to reasonable discussion (i.e it might be fair to acknowledge an arrangement exists especially if or as its likely to be common knowledge but they shouldn't delve into it). You could raise a greivance if you think it's gone too far.

That said, I'm a big believer in fairness in the workplace and if someone was denied a reasonable flexibility when someone else got it, whilst the reasoning may not be open to public discussion I do think it's fair to highlight that someone else does, because it might encourage management to consider it.

At the end of the day all you can do is look after your own interests, which is technically what you're doing by being concerned but you can't stop an employee speaking out ultimately, but you can react to it by means of greivance if you feel it's gone too far after the fact.


Also consider the potential risk of being a double edged sword, as we could fall into the trap of judging other people's validity for flexible arrangements and that's a road that shouldn't be ventured.

We have parents in the department that start work slightly later due to dropping kids off at school. If I said to one of them, 'I've applied to start later, if it's not approved then I'm going to bring up yours and others arrangements, because I should be entitled to it'.

I'd consider this fair game really, having kids is very much a personal arrangement and if a company is prepared to be flexible to allow for someones personal conveniences (which i would applaud by the way)  iI would then (and quite reasonably) expect the company to consider my own conveniences with such a request even if it's not to pick up a child.  A refusal could actually be quite brutally unfair as It's not like being a parent is a disability or medical condition, so yeah, in such a scenario totally raise the fact. People without kids have every right to feel aggrieved if shown less flexibility than those that do.

Thanks for the input and I will take this onboard.

My point about flexibility in the case of parenting was just an example of saying because a fair adjustment has been made for them, doesn't necessarily mean I would think one should automatically be made for me and I'd discuss this with the manager instead of making statements in an open workplace, before anything has been concluded, (which is what my colleague is doing).

Obviously individuals should advocate for their own interests and needs, I understand they will make their own conclusions and perhaps challenge current arrangements to push their case. I guess my own preference would be to wait for the decision to be reviewed and engage with the manager on the topic, and avoid potentially provoking a response from employees that shouldn't have much to do with the process.

Thanks to people that have contributed. I will take advice from it and apply it to the situation if it continues.

You're really making a meal out of something you can't influence...and hopefully worrying about something (a change in your own arrangements) which may never even be reviewed, let alone changed.

throughtheblue

Marcon said:

throughtheblue said:

Dakta said:

I understand your concern - obviously you want your privacy, you don't want to be subject to scrutiny as per your arrangements, you don't want to be used as leverage and you don't want your own situation to be compromised by others all piling in and wanting the same which you could have concerns may lead to management curtailing your arrangement. 

Realistically though the other posters are right - the colleague can pretty much act on any information they have to further their interests, the employer should contain this to reasonable discussion (i.e it might be fair to acknowledge an arrangement exists especially if or as its likely to be common knowledge but they shouldn't delve into it). You could raise a greivance if you think it's gone too far.

That said, I'm a big believer in fairness in the workplace and if someone was denied a reasonable flexibility when someone else got it, whilst the reasoning may not be open to public discussion I do think it's fair to highlight that someone else does, because it might encourage management to consider it.

At the end of the day all you can do is look after your own interests, which is technically what you're doing by being concerned but you can't stop an employee speaking out ultimately, but you can react to it by means of greivance if you feel it's gone too far after the fact.


Also consider the potential risk of being a double edged sword, as we could fall into the trap of judging other people's validity for flexible arrangements and that's a road that shouldn't be ventured.

We have parents in the department that start work slightly later due to dropping kids off at school. If I said to one of them, 'I've applied to start later, if it's not approved then I'm going to bring up yours and others arrangements, because I should be entitled to it'.

I'd consider this fair game really, having kids is very much a personal arrangement and if a company is prepared to be flexible to allow for someones personal conveniences (which i would applaud by the way)  iI would then (and quite reasonably) expect the company to consider my own conveniences with such a request even if it's not to pick up a child.  A refusal could actually be quite brutally unfair as It's not like being a parent is a disability or medical condition, so yeah, in such a scenario totally raise the fact. People without kids have every right to feel aggrieved if shown less flexibility than those that do.

Thanks for the input and I will take this onboard.

My point about flexibility in the case of parenting was just an example of saying because a fair adjustment has been made for them, doesn't necessarily mean I would think one should automatically be made for me and I'd discuss this with the manager instead of making statements in an open workplace, before anything has been concluded, (which is what my colleague is doing).

Obviously individuals should advocate for their own interests and needs, I understand they will make their own conclusions and perhaps challenge current arrangements to push their case. I guess my own preference would be to wait for the decision to be reviewed and engage with the manager on the topic, and avoid potentially provoking a response from employees that shouldn't have much to do with the process.

Thanks to people that have contributed. I will take advice from it and apply it to the situation if it continues.

You're really making a meal out of something you can't influence...and hopefully worrying about something (a change in your own arrangements) which may never even be reviewed, let alone changed.

I would say I'm getting some advice in the (maybe unlikely) case that the situation intensified or led to private information being disclosed. Forgive me for not having come across this situation in a workplace before. There was an obvious shift in how said employee chose to talk about others arrangements, which I'd not come across in years of working there.

I have accepted the points and am grateful for the advice given, but anytime I respond I'm persistently reminded of the same points.

Anyway, thanks again.

Dakta

On the whole I think it's unlikely they'll try and discuss anything personally specific to you, what they'll most likely do is just make reference to the fact that you've received adjustments and therefore they should be considered too, the actual merits of your situation probably won't even get comment. If they comment then it's probably because they know already and that's a separate concern. 

I wouldn't worry so much as I don't think your worst of your concerns will materialise.

Cromwell77

When my wife went back to work after maternity I had flexible working as the nursery could not arrange childcare for one of the days and we have no family who could help. This was put in place to be reviewed after a year. Several months Two childless colleagues put in requests for a similar arrangement and it was refused, they argued that it was unfair I could have this and they could not, I was not happy that they used this argument but I was not unhappy with them as they were using what they could to get what they wanted. At then end of the 12 months my flexible working was reviewed and revoked as it was seen to be unfair on other colleagues. I was upset but had no issue with either the employer or other employees. 

If you have a business’s reason that makes your flexible working acceptable fine any other reason why should you have something that someone else shouldn’t have ? In my opinion to feel that your situation should not be discussed sounds rather like you are happy with what you have and are worried that you may have it taken away which is natural but I feel unfair. If the reason you have this is it a business reason you have no more rights to have this than an other employee in a similar role and it does sound like you don’t want them to have this.