Economy 10 suppliers July 2023

PaulSilv

Trying to (manually) compare E10 suppliers in July 2023 to see if worth switching. I’ve got a 2nd generation smart meter, and keen to stick with E10, 16% peak, 84% off peak use (E7 would likely see a substantial swing from off peak to peak).
So far, I’ve got:
EDF - peak .4544 off peak .1535 standing .4969
Ovo - peak .3199 of peak .2303 standing .4732
(SSE - all being migrated to Ovo peak .3486 off peak .2597 standing .5603)
British Gas - don’t support E10 
Eon - support E10, won’t give rates over the phone, only via uswitch - uswitch don’t have any plan’s available at the moment.
If anyone knows of any other options for E10 suppliers I’d be grateful to know. 

Scot_39

Re your prices  - realky dont understand the standing charge differences.  The SSE to Ovo is more like standard crediit Ofgem cap, the other 2 DD rates.

Edit 1

Looking again - it's also possibe the Ovo rates are ex VAT - 47.32+5% = 49.69 - coincidence - suspect not?

AFAIK EOn Next do not offer E10 to new customers - unsure of others - but that was a comment from complex metering team when upgraded to Smets1 smart years ago. The same guy who was the 3rd attempt to remove my heatwise to go digital 2 years before who dealt with non standard installs.

I only got one alternative quote for e10 years ago when kicked off heatwise.  SP - and they didn't offer it when rang back a year or two later when EOn would only offer Smets1.

Have EDF or Ovo actually quoted you a rate as a new customer ?
Did they say anything about meter upgrades in future ?

Sadly the old econmy10 site was taken down. And posts here on it are rare.

I know EDF still publish e10 in their quarterly cap/ epg rates table series - but haven't phoned.  The EDF day night split is more aggressive than EOns -  for me DD in EM  c39/20p there's was c9p further apart iirc - about 4p cheapr off peak - exact figures at home - and in summer months - that's not good for my mix.

It was also suggested Octopus used to -  again definitely historic rarher than current vibe -  be able to bill e10 metered customers in a reply I saw recently.  But they are pretty flexible, as seem to allow e7 alcs smart to be billed on agile tariff for instance.
But again caution re future metering.



I did see one post where EDF had taken on an old SP legacy on one of their legacy a few months back - but the actual switch was year or so prior iirc sp 3 rate to one of their specials.


Sure there was a post a while ago here where EOnNext refused to reinstate E10 after a meter upgrade saw a customer on E10 taken off it - despite promises. And iirc the Ombudsman didn't back the customer.

I might try to search later.  Too painful on phone.  

Edit 2 - sorry couldn't find - but pretty sure as it was relevent to my own install - I didn't imagine it.

Wonder why EOn hinted they allow a switch site but won't quote a price - seems a strange recommendation.
Or was it more / just a general have you tried,  not a specific we offer deals via ?

mmmmikey

I appreciate this isn't going to be for everyone, but thought I would sow a seed in case it is at some stage.....

If you park the issue of the 5 wire meter / switching for a moment and look at Octopus Agile it looks significantly cheaper than E10 rates for similar usage patterns - i.e off peak overnight and again in the afternoon. I daresay the same is true of some of the other smart TOU tariffs but haven't looked. So if you can get round the 5 wire meter issue there's probably good savings to be made.

So how to get round the 5 wire issue? It should be fairly straightforward for an electrician to install a contactor to switch the cheap rate circuits on and off. You could then trigger the contactor with a smart switch (a Tapo P110 would be perfect). This arrangement would allow you to choose any smart TOU tariff you choose and configure the smart switch to make best advantage of it, based on your own lifestyle as well as cheap rates. In the case of Agile, you even have the option to configure this setup to give you the best 5 hours overnight and 3 hours in the afternoon or whatever you choose.

Lots of possibilities - how about Economy 5+3 during the week and Economy 16 at the weekend?

I've done something along these lines for hot water and battery charging and it's working well with initial testing, and will extend it to include heating when the season starts. Can share details if anyone is interested.

Food for thought maybe?

bristolleedsfan

PaulSilv said:

Trying to (manually) compare E10 suppliers in July 2023 to see if worth switching. I’ve got a 2nd generation smart meter, and keen to stick with E10, 16% peak, 84% off peak use (E7 would likely see a substantial swing from off peak to peak).
So far, I’ve got:
EDF - peak .4544 off peak .1535 standing .4969

Looks best bet for winter months.

Kid_Icarus

I would just get rid of E10 - you can never use any switching site, have to do manual comparisons, suppliers never publish their E10 tariffs online which means hours wasted on the phone trying to get through to someone to get quotes.  Then there’s the issue of multiple MPANs - all in all it is a royal PITA.

I had my old Llandis Heatwise E10 meter ripped out and replaced with a standard 5 terminal E7 smart meter, still have an off-peak and 24hr consumer unit, however it is all in one metal CU & wasn’t worth ripping it all out.  Replaced all the storage heaters with Dimplex Quantum (which can work with either dual supply or single supply) and it works really well.  For hot water. i put in a Horstmann E7 Electronic timer unit (had to move the supply for the hot water tank over to the 24hr side of the CU) and can program off-peak times for hot water heating plus have the option to boost it for an hour if I run out of hot water.

In terms of tariffs, yes it is a pain E10 has gone as the extra couple of hrs in the afternoon was great as it heated up hot water & gave the storage heaters a top up….but it’s been fine on E7 & the Dimplex Quantums keep the room at the temp I want.  Yep that does mean using a bit more peak.  Octopus now have a tariff for heat pumps which may be of interest, there are two cheap periods, one overnight & one in the afternoon followed by an expensive peak period 16:00 > 19:00.  We’ll probably see more innovative tariffs like this I am sure.

bristolleedsfan

Kid_Icarus said:

 suppliers never publish their E10 tariffs online which means hours wasted on the phone trying to get through to someone to get quotes.  

https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/default/files/dm1923_sg2_rate_card_builed_aw3_v3.pdf

Kid_Icarus

Great - so one of them does.  What about the rest 🤣😂😩

Scot_39

You forget to factor in the payback times of the highly supplier and regional dependent e7 vs e10 savings vs the costs of all of that kit.

I got a quote in 2020 for 1 large quantum and 2 mediums - to replace box of bricks old style - including dual wiring mods for timers / fans.

The payback was over 20 years.

The new RF series are around £500 more - fitting I guess even more of a markup.


And even at new rates - and as a low user - my pay back would still be well over 10 years.

The sad thing is I suspect I may well lose e10 at next meter change - as a few other mse posters have.

And may need to find that money - at least for living room.

As e7 doesn't suit my old box of bricks heaters.

As a neighbour who thought he was going to save by switching to e7 found to his cost.

As needed plug in boost heating at e7 peak rates in evenings.

He went old generation Quantum after 1st winter set of bills made the error of his ways only too clear.

No one would fit a new e10 meter - he did try a few.  Including the one he left the previous year EOn.

mmmmikey

Although E7 has it's limitations with box of bricks storage heaters, they should be perfect for using Octopus Agile and smart switching. You could set it up to heat them for the cheapest 2 hours in the afternoon, or do something like only heat them when the cost is below, say 15p/kWh or whatever. I suspect the savings would be substantial and unless there's anything particularly difficult about your installation I would expect you'd get change from £200 for the electrical work and equipment to set it up. Much cheaper than replacing the old storage heaters. Not an off the shelf solution but not really difficult either.....

bristolleedsfan

mmmmikey said:

Although E7 has it's limitations with box of bricks storage heaters, they should be perfect for using Octopus Agile and smart switching. You could set it up to heat them for the cheapest 2 hours in the afternoon, or do something like only heat them when the cost is below, say 15p/kWh or whatever. .

You seem to be either guessing or assuming Agile will have sufficient cheaper hours at night time as well as some cheap daytime throughout winter months

This is what someone who has many years experience and knowledge of Octopus smart tariffs said on subject.

mmmmikey

bristolleedsfan said:

mmmmikey said:

Although E7 has it's limitations with box of bricks storage heaters, they should be perfect for using Octopus Agile and smart switching. You could set it up to heat them for the cheapest 2 hours in the afternoon, or do something like only heat them when the cost is below, say 15p/kWh or whatever. .

You seem to be either guessing or assuming Agile will have sufficient cheaper hours at night time as well as some cheap daytime throughout winter months

This is what someone who has many years experience and knowledge of Octopus smart tariffs said on subject.

Yes, you make a valid point that I should have highlighted myself.

At the moment, Agile is proving far cheaper for me than E7, averaging about 6p/kWh over the last 12 weeks, but there's no guarantee that will continue. Of course, there are also considerations around which region you're in and your ability/ willingness to adjust your lifestyle to make best use of the cheap rates.

The key point I'd like to make is that the technology is all there now to allow E10 users to take advantage of smart metering and TOU tariffs to avoid the expense of ditching existing storage heaters. And the potential (admittedly not guaranteed) to save money is significant.  

The principle of using smart meters and smart switching also applies to any other TOU tariff. With Agile you can allow the times to vary to get the best price. With other TOU tariffs you could set a fixed schedule. You could also switch between tariffs without needing to change the meter.

To repeat a comment I made in an earlier post, this isn't going to be a solution for everyone but hopefully it is food for thought for some.