Do I need to pay thousands for a fire alarm in my hallway?

timww

My flat is in a building with one other property. It was converted from a Victorian house in the 1980s.

My neighbour is selling their flat, and their buyers commissioned a fire safety risk assessment which found our building (due to shared hallway) is not up to regulation.

I'm not trying to avoid making improvements, but the neighbour and I differ in our assessment of the report and nobody seems willing to give pragmatic advice. They don't want to lose their sale and will likely come under pressure from their buyer now to compensate them in advance. At worst they may push me for immediate remedial work.

The report recommends various measures are taken within 3-6 months, and the costs of these will run into the thousands. One of the recommendations is that a grade A fire alarm is fitted in the common hallway. This recommendation is made in addition to bringing the building up to regulation with respect to fire doors and such. (All things I'm happy to do).

The point of contention is whether the alarm would be necessary if the other measures were taken. The report seems (to me) to imply this, but my neighbour disagrees. I contacted local building control, but they won't say if my reading of the report is correct, only that the regulations apply.

I'm more than happy to upgrade the doors and locks at the cost of whatever 100s of pounds, but shelling out another thousand pounds for an alarm is something I want to avoid if it's not necessary. I presume it will carry annual fees too, as a qualified person will have to test it every 6 months.

Does anyone have any experience of making an old conversion compliant with fire regs? Am I right that the alarm would not be required if I could get the building certified?

Is there an organisation that can advise me on what I actually have to do, and by when? Free or otherwise?

SiliconChip

Does your local Fire Service offer home inspections? I had one done some years ago and they gave me free alarms (not suitable for your purposes though).

timww

I am told the fire service does provide free advice, but to complicate matters my neighbour is against them visiting due to comments from his surveyor. Apparently he was warned that the fire service would serve us with a legal notice if we were found in non-compliance. I can't verify this.

ComicGeek

Normally the advice is not to provide a fire alarm system in communal areas, partly because the risk of a fire starting in the communal areas is relatively small and partly because the fire brigade want occupants to remain within their protected flats. Obviously at least one high profile case recently where that advice to stay put was the wrong response, so is an area where people overegg the design for understandable reasons.

In your case it sounds like you don't have appropriate fire separation between the flats and the common parts, so that does need to be reviewed and corrected. Independent fire risk assessments can often identify additional recommendations over and above Building Regulations requirements. Older conversions can be difficult, as the separating floors between flats is often not fire rated, and services may run through walls without fire proofing applied. On the basis that replacing front doors for fire doors isn't sufficient to deal with the other fire paths, the fire alarm system may be deemed necessary to warn the upper floor occupant if the fire escape stairs are blocked.

The key thing is what the purpose of the fire alarm is. Where are the detectors and what are they supposed to detect? If they do detect, what happens then? What information is fed back to the flat occupants, and what are they expected to do in the event of an alarm? Just sticking in an alarm system without thinking through all the steps doesn't help anyone.

Jonboy_1984

Who owns the freehold on the property? 

timww

To answer some of these follow up questions ...

@Jonboy_1984 My neighbours and myself are joint freeholders.

@ComicGeek It is indeed the fire separation between flats that is the issue, particularly between the flats and the hallway, which is the only escape route to the street. The report only mentioned doors as it was not a full building survey. Dividing walls are brick, but I had wondered about floors and ceilings (flats are on top of one another).

The £2k quote for the fire alarm specified -

Grade A 3 zone conventional to satisfy system category LD2. It will consist of automatic smoke detectors c/w sounder bases, and manual call points in the communal area, and an automatic heat detector c/w sounder base in the entrance lobby of each flat.".

This is the extent of my knowledge of how it will work. I presume the information fed back to the occupants is a very loud noise, and we are expected to evacuate. It doesn't seem from the report that our ability to escape without entering the hallway is as important as ticking the box of having an alarm installed. All the more reason I want some pragmatic advice.

KingL2

Grade A seems a bit extreme if you are in a simple 'one-up, one-down' type arrangement.  It is doubtful you will find independent interpretation of the existing report.   Your best bet might be to get your own assessment done, compare the two reports then take it from there.

timww

@KingL2 I am inclined to get a second survey done. It's the wording that's difficult to navigate. I'm sure all the advice is good.

I'm trying not to second guess the usefulness of an alarm, but it does seem like overkill vs the risk actually posed. I don't think I know anyone who has such a device in a private flat conversion. If we're breaking the law, then so is half the street!

I want to ensure I'm following the law, but without getting ripped off by companies scaring me into paying for systems you'll only find in commercial buildings. We already have smoke and CO detectors. Nobody smokes. Gas and electrical safety certificates are up to date. Locks can all be opened from the inside. I'll pay for a better front door. That seems fair.

ComicGeek

Fire alarm systems like this can quickly get messy - the fire risk assessors rarely understand how the systems work and what they are trying to achieve with it.

So the basis seems to be that the fire separation between the flats, and between the flats and escape stairs/hallway can't be trusted given the age of the conversion. Unlikely to have fire collars installed around soil stacks, fire protection to ceilings etc. Therefore needs an early warning to both flats in the event of smoke in the stairs/hallway which can affect ability to escape safely, or the triggering of a heat detector within either flat which would be an indication of a fire in the flat - the use of a heat detector in the lobby is so you don't give your neighbour a heart attack when you burn the toast, and is there to protect the stairs/hallway on the other side only.

That all assumes that there isn't any other way out of either flat in the event of the stairs/hallway being impassable. Do you have a second means of escape, such as egress from suitable windows in both flats? 

Ultimately the fire risk assessor is going to be err on the side of caution - but you are right that there will be a continuing responsibility to test, inspect and maintain any installed system moving forward. Big can of worms. Have they mentioned emergency lighting to the area as well?

timww

@ComicGeek

Re lighting: "An emergency lighting system is not required as the common area is not higher than two floors and is simple." (says the report).

Re escape: The ground floor flat (mine) can escape out the front window, but this was not assessed in the survey which was only of the common areas and referred to the hall as the "main" escape route, which it is. The upstairs flat can only escape onto a flat roof... 7ft drop into a garden with no street access. It would probably save their lives, but could barely be considered an escape route. 

NameUnavailable

I don't think there's any requirement to have a fire alarm system and indeed it seems OTT for a 2 flat 'block'.

You should have appropriate fire doors with closers for the flat entrance doors and it is of course wise to fit smoke alarms inside the flats. Are you saying that the flats don't currently have fire doors fitted?

What report exactly did the buyer obtain? It's not normal to pay for a fire risk report and the quote you mention, is that a quote from the same people who provided the report? (vested interests........).

The full latest fire regs are on the gov.uk website.